600A Residential panel

[electrofelon]

If any portion of the work is in public right away the utility will need to get public works permits with can take 1-2 months.

Yeah definitely potentially lots of red tape there. As many of you know, I work in two very different areas, upstate NY and the Seattle WA area. When I first started working out west I was baffled at the absurdity finding out that the POCO needed to get permits and approval from the city/municipality for work along the public right of way. Here in Upstate NY my understanding is POCOs can basically do whatever they need to along public roads without having to get approval for every little thing.

 

[tortuga]

I hope one of the major loadcenter manufacturers starts making a 42 space panel with a 300 amp buss that takes a 200 - 300A main with the same form factor of a 42 space 200A panel.

 

[jaggedben]

NEC calcs are extremely conservative, often by a factor of 2.5. POCO's typically don't even bother looking at those NEC calcs and do their own. I'm not trying to argue, I certainly don't know all the ins and outs of this project, just that everywhere I have worked the POCO doesn't care about what NEC service or main breaker size you come up with. I just find it hard to believe that they say they can't serve one house, unless that line was already completely maxed out. Or maybe there's a whole bunch of other houses or loads being added about the same time, who knows.

For whoever needs to know, this is true.
I was part of a 'remodel' project where the home went to 2000 sqft, all electric, EV charger etc, basically the same stuff as the OP just 1/4 to 1/3 as much of it. I had to downsize the main breaker from 200A to 150A and did a 220.82 load calc to verify. All good. After the project was over, the customer had an additional 70A spa panel put in. (I found out because it overloaded the battery backup, but I digress...) My load calc may no longer be valid, but I still have access to their consumption data. The most they use (highest average over a 15min interval) is a bit over 14kW, which is to say ... 60A.

 

[hillbilly1]

IIRC you can have multiple service disconnects in a switchboard, but they have to be in different vertical sections of the gear.

As soon as manufacturers catch up………

 

[Elect117]

Wouldn't it be easier to request a 3ph service like 120/240V 4W and balance it with the 240V loads?

 

[hillbilly1]

Wouldn't it be easier to request a 3ph service like 120/240V 4W and balance it with the 240V loads?

Still a lot of infrastructure, most residential neighborhoods have only a single phase utility loop.

 

[kec]

Wasn't it hard to acquire 320 class meter sockets for a while there, maybe still is for some?

I know at one time even 200 amp meter sockets weren't readily available.

Still is here. Are you somewhat close to Milbank in KS? Here our UT company requires a commercial bypass lever action.

 

[nizak]

For whoever needs to know, this is true.
I was part of a 'remodel' project where the home went to 2000 sqft, all electric, EV charger etc, basically the same stuff as the OP just 1/4 to 1/3 as much of it. I had to downsize the main breaker from 200A to 150A and did a 220.82 load calc to verify. All good. After the project was over, the customer had an additional 70A spa panel put in. (I found out because it overloaded the battery backup, but I digress...) My load calc may no longer be valid, but I still have access to their consumption data. The most they use (highest average over a 15min interval) is a bit over 14kW, which is to say ... 60A.

Curious as to why you downsized the main breaker to 150A.

 

[jaggedben]

Article 705 reasons. To allow more solar and battery backfeed under the '120% rule'.

 

[letgomywago]

I hope one of the major loadcenter manufacturers starts making a 42 space panel with a 300 amp buss that takes a 200 - 300A main with the same form factor of a 42 space 200A panel.

I'd want a 320 just for ease of equipment availability

 

[Knightryder12]

The actual load is likely dramatically less than you think it will be, I guarantee the actual load will not be anywhere near 400 amps. I don't see what panel size has to do with it. I've never come across utility that cares what the panel size or main breaker size is.

All they (the POCO) seem to care about here in FL is very large motors, like 50HP and up.

 

[kwired]

I hope one of the major loadcenter manufacturers starts making a 42 space panel with a 300 amp buss that takes a 200 - 300A main with the same form factor of a 42 space 200A panel.

I don't see that happening. Over 225 amps breakers are normally same form factor as a 400 amp breaker. If you want a 300 amp main you likely ordering a commercial panelboard in a 20 inch wide cabinet with 400 amp bus and your 300 amp main.

Load centers are somewhat higher volume sales of a variety of fixed spec complete units. The commercial panelboards are more customizable for what you want, can take longer to get as you either special order an assembly or order the components needed to assemble in the field.

 

[electrofelon]

I hope one of the major loadcenter manufacturers starts making a 42 space panel with a 300 amp buss that takes a 200 - 300A main with the same form factor of a 42 space 200A panel.

My gripe is even a 42 space panel is getting too small for many houses. And not necessarily too small as far as number of spaces, just I hate making up an almost full 40 or 42 space panel. Come on, give me some more room. Perhaps they could start making 20" wide load centers.

 

[ruxton.stanislaw]

To H-E-double hockey sticks with the power company and government regulating things like this. My next property is going to have a solar farm.

 

[BarryO]

I need a 600A panel for a 7,000 sq. ft. home

Electric mandates aside, that doesn't seem out of line to me for a huge home like this in the Central Valley of CA. I've been in a bunch of homes in the Phoenix area that size and 600A services are typical. And I've experienced enough 105+ degree days in places like Redding, CA to know that summer temps in the Central Valley can get bad as well, and may require similar AC capability at times. Bottom line is that a 7,000 sq. ft. single family home will in no way ever be "green" and will always be a profligate consumer of energy for the number of people it shelters.

 

[kwired]

My gripe is even a 42 space panel is getting too small for many houses. And not necessarily too small as far as number of spaces, just I hate making up an almost full 40 or 42 space panel. Come on, give me some more room. Perhaps they could start making 20" wide load centers.

That is a problem. Some have 60 space load centers. They possibly cost enough to make you think about just going with a commercial panelboard and gain the advantages of a roomier cabinet at same time. QO and Homline AFCI/GFCI's also take up a lot of the width in a 14.5 inch wide cabinet. Plug on neutral helps clean things up a little but still makes for challenges when adding say 100 amp feeder conductors someday in the future into that already crowded space.

 

[zbang]

This is why sub-panels exist.

 

[hillbilly1]

Manufactures keep making things smaller too. Bought this 30 amp nf disconnect. Barely enough room to make up #10’s!

 

[rambojoe]

That'd be cool to work on a gas station in a house. One of those take a step back and think I guess I'll never do this again type jobs.

I did a nascar dudes house with a track in the back- and more than a few sb-terrainium gun ranges... now that was cool! 2000- 6000, 12,000sq ft, its nothing new granted, just the whole "irony" factor has changed...