680-21 C GFCI For 240v Commercial Pool Pump

[Ravenvalor]

Hello,
Does a 208volt 40amp breaker feeding a swimming pool pump at a subdivision need to be GFCI? If it’s an existing installation and all that I am doing is replacing the starter do I need to replace breaker with a GFCI breaker?
Thanks for the help with this one.

 

[petersonra]

You are not responsible for what is there now. If it is not up to code, all you should do is point it out to the owner. They can chose to take remedial action or not.

You might want to take a look at 680.21(C).

 

[Ravenvalor]

I called the inspector and he told me that the state of NC just passed a law that says if you touch a pool breaker you have to replace it with a GFCI. Simple enough

thank you

 

[petersonra]

I called the inspector and he told me that the state of NC just passed a law that says if you touch a pool breaker you have to replace it with a GFCI. Simple enough

thank you

How does replacing the contactor involve touching a pool breaker?

 

[kwired]

I called the inspector and he told me that the state of NC just passed a law that says if you touch a pool breaker you have to replace it with a GFCI. Simple enough

thank you

Must mean you can't even reset one that tripped?

Or did you not touch it if you reset it with a stick?

 

[kwired]

680.21 (D) says if you replace the motor you need to add GFCI if otherwise required by (C), doesn't mention motor controllers.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't beleve you need to put it on gfci but not a bad idea. Here is the amendment

AMENDMENTS 680.21(C)(1) & (2) Amend NEC 2017, page 546: (C) GFCI Protection. Outlets supplying pool pump motors connected to single-phase, 120-volt through 240-volt branch circuits, whether by receptacle or by direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
(1) Pool Pump Motor Replacement. Whenever a pool pump motor requires replacing and the existing branch circuit or receptacle providing power to the pump motor does not provide ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel as required by 680.21(C), the branch circuit or receptacle shall be updated to provide ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
(2) Existing Pool Pump Motor Branch Circuit and Overcurrent Protection. All existing singlephase, 120-volt through 240-volt branch circuits and overcurrent devices that supply power to a pool pump motor by direct connection or outlet shall comply with the provisions of 680.21(C) when the branch circuits or overcurrent devices are altered, installed, modified, relocated, repaired, or replaced.

 

[texie]

The OP states this pump is 208 volt but does not indicate single or 3 phase. In the 2017 edition GFCI would not be required at all if 3 phase. Under the 2020 edition it would be for new install or for a replacement per 680.21(D).
It looks like the amendment Dennis posted is for the 2017 edition as 3 phase is not mentioned. Item (2) in that amendment states " when the branch circuits or overcurrent devices are altered, installed, modified, relocated, repaired, or replaced", it would seem to me that GFCI would need to be added if changing the motor starter.

 

[Ravenvalor]

The OP states this pump is 208 volt but does not indicate single or 3 phase. In the 2017 edition GFCI would not be required at all if 3 phase. Under the 2020 edition it would be for new install or for a replacement per 680.21(D).
It looks like the amendment Dennis posted is for the 2017 edition as 3 phase is not mentioned. Item (2) in that amendment states " when the branch circuits or overcurrent devices are altered, installed, modified, relocated, repaired, or replaced", it would seem to me that GFCI would need to be added if changing the motor starter.

It is single phase.
I agree with you. If the starter is being replaced then the breaker would need to be replaced with a GFCI as well.

 

[jap]

The rule indicates "" when the branch circuits or overcurrent devices are altered, installed, modified, relocated, repaired, or replaced".

In my mind, If only changing out the starter you're not changing anything about the branch circuits or overcurrent devices unless you happen to change the overloads in the starter for some reason.

JAP>

 

[Ravenvalor]

The rule indicates "" when the branch circuits or overcurrent devices are altered, installed, modified, relocated, repaired, or replaced".

In my mind, If only changing out the starter you're not changing anything about the branch circuits or overcurrent devices unless you happen to change the overloads in the starter for some reason.

JAP>

They were talking about replacing the starter with a larger one.

Thank you,

 

[texie]

They were talking about replacing the starter with a larger one.

Thank you,

I gotta ask, why are you putting in a larger starter? If the old one was not large enough how was the pump operating?

 

[jap]

Seems the plot thickens.
At first it was just changing out the starter. I'd say you were not altering the circuit.
Even if you change the starter out to a larger one for possibly greater contact durability I'd say you're still not altering the circuit.
But,if you are putting in a larger starter and increasing the circuit size then your altering the circuit and the new requirements will come into play.

Jap>

 

[steve66]

I don’t have my code book with me, but it seems like overloads in a motor starter would also be considered over current protection.

And don’t many (or even most) starters have an integral breaker or fused disconnect?

 

[jap]

I would think there would be a line drawn on the rules between the branch circuit or feeding the line side of the starter and the load side.
Otherwise, you couldn't dial in an overload without being opened up to the rule for GFI protection.

Not all starters have integral breakers or fused disconnects.

Most starters have their SCOD located elsewhere.

Starters incorporating and integral breaker or fused disconnect are "Combination" Starters.

JAP>

 

[augie47]

Is it a single phase or 3 phase motor ??

 

[jusme123]

Seems the plot thickens.
At first it was just changing out the starter. I'd say you were not altering the circuit.
Even if you change the starter out to a larger one for possibly greater contact durability I'd say you're still not altering the circuit.
But,if you are putting in a larger starter and increasing the circuit size then your altering the circuit and the new requirements will come into play.

Jap>

Why are you limiting it just to altering the circuit, when the code clearly states, " when the branch circuits or overcurrent devices are altered, installed, modified, relocated, repaired, or replaced"?

 

[kwired]

The rule indicates "" when the branch circuits or overcurrent devices are altered, installed, modified, relocated, repaired, or replaced".

In my mind, If only changing out the starter you're not changing anything about the branch circuits or overcurrent devices unless you happen to change the overloads in the starter for some reason.

JAP>

I know what you are saying but at same time why are we changing it? If something is wrong with it must be a "repair"?

Most the time replacing something with like component is not considered alteration, but they are specifically addressing such situation this time.

 

[jap]

Why are you limiting it just to altering the circuit, when the code clearly states, " when the branch circuits or overcurrent devices are altered, installed, modified, relocated, repaired, or replaced"?

If you change an overload setting on a starter are you going to have to follow all the new rules?

By rights that's altering the circuit.

JAP>

 

[petersonra]

If you change an overload setting on a starter are you going to have to follow all the new rules?

By rights that's altering the circuit.

JAP>

Changing the setting does not alter the circuit.