A GFCI...an FPE panel...AL wire...and the unqualified.....Almost a fire!

[frizbeedog]

GFCI Meltdown!

It burned through the box! But I'm thinking the circuit breaker should have tripped before this.

Yes. That was AL wire you saw. What's that symbol on the right? :roll:

It's not that difficult a task, but unqualified is unqualified. A rental property and likely maintenance folks involed.

House wired with AL throughout, and an FPE panel.

Was called to replace this GFCI and Box, copper pigtails of course, and will replace the circuit breaker for the affected circuit with new or tested/refurbished.

Above and beyond that I would love to hear what other actions you would propose. I know what I would like to do. :wink:

From what I saw, the house was close to being burnned to the ground.

 

[iwire]

Nice photography.

What are you using?

 

[chevyx92]

Nice photography.

What are you using?

A camera. :roll:

 

[480sparky]

Was it caused by the aluminum wire, or maybe the terminals weren't tight?

 

[mdshunk]

A camera. :roll:

Yeah, hardly anyone draws pictures of their jobsite finds anymore.

 

[frizbeedog]

Nice photography.

What are you using?

Sony Cyber-shot, DSC-H3

8.1 mega pixels

10x optical zoom

ISO 3200

I don't know what all them numbers mean but it's a relatively inexpensive camera.

 

[iwire]

Was it caused by the aluminum wire, or maybe the terminals weren't tight?

Heat









(I just figured I could give a smart $ answer in this thread as well )

 

[frizbeedog]

Was it caused by the aluminum wire, or maybe the terminals weren't tight?

Both?

The fact that the breaker did not trip is the bummer.

 

[480sparky]

Sony Cyber-shot, DSC-H3

Camera manufacturer, brand name, and model number.

8.1 mega pixels

How many little dots make up the entire photo.

10x optical zoom

zoom ratio is 10:1 based on focal length

ISO 3200

International Standards Organization equivelant of film speed 3200.

 

[mdshunk]

Both?

The fact that the breaker did not trip is the bummer.

I'm not completely convinced, based on what I see in the pictures, that any breaker would have tripped. A 5 amp fault, or resistive connection at a similar magnitude, can burn down a house and never trip a breaker. Dare I say, that's what brought AFCI's about.

 

[frizbeedog]

Dare I say, that's what brought AFCI's about.

Dare say sir. One more piece of the puzzel.

The more I read the less resistance I have to that technology.

 

[hillbilly1]

Another log on the arc fault fire.

 

[MF Dagger]

Another log on the arc fault fire.

I say it's another log on the "unqualified shouldn't be messing with something above the skillset" fire.

 

[LarryFine]

Was it caused by the aluminum wire, or maybe the terminals weren't tight?

The former tends to cause the latter.

 

[480sparky]

The former tends to cause the latter.

Copper will do the same thing if it's not tightened properly, though.

 

[celtic]

Another log on the arc fault fire.

Is there an AFCI for FPE?

 

[quogueelectric]

Copper will do the same thing if it's not tightened properly, though.

Copper and alum have different expansion coeficients so when the circuit is cranked up like with a blowdryer the copper/brass only expands a little while the al expands a lot and it has no where to go so it squeezes out to the sides. Hair gets dry and device cools down the alum pushed out the sides and now the screw connection is loose. Hairdryer comes on again the next day now the whole thing gets even hotter a little bit more every day untilyou get a fire in the wall.

 

[480sparky]

Copper and alum have different expansion coeficients so when the circuit is cranked up like with a blowdryer the copper/brass only expands a little while the al expands a lot and it has no where to go so it squeezes out to the sides. Hair gets dry and device cools down the alum pushed out the sides and now the screw connection is loose. Hairdryer comes on again the next day now the whole thing gets even hotter a little bit more every day untilyou get a fire in the wall.

I understand all that. But who's to say the connection wasn't tight enough to begin with, copper or aluminim notwithstanding?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I'm not completely convinced, based on what I see in the pictures, that any breaker would have tripped. A 5 amp fault, or resistive connection at a similar magnitude, can burn down a house and never trip a breaker. Dare I say, that's what brought AFCI's about.

I fully agree but am not even sure that an AFCI would detect this problem. The high heat produced by a poor connection may not be an arcing fault and the AFCI would act just like a standard breaker in that case, with the exception that the heat could melt the insulation and cause a ground fault which the AFCI would react to.

 

[frizbeedog]

I fully agree but am not even sure that an AFCI would detect this problem.

Given the damage to the device pictured, some arcing must have been happening at some point during it's meltdown.