A Publication AFCI manufacturers and CMPs don't want you to read

[mbrooke]

Do youn have a link to the ROP?


>>>

http://www.incendies-origine-electri...posal_nec.html

Of particular interest pertinent to the OP may be the many rop's Dr Joe Engel fowraded during the 2013 annual revision cycle

I'd encourage anyone to ask why the chief nema afci task force member, a man with a doctorate in electricity , would be so publicly adamant .

~RJ~

Link out, sorry


BTW, when we talk about a coil, are we talking about GFP or low magnetic trip breakers?

 

[mbrooke]

The Thermarestor System has no UK accreditation nor is it likely to.

But arent they used to meet amendment 3?

 

[mbrooke]

You can have all trade agreements you want. Thermarrestor will not get a BS-EN listing and I doubt a UL listing.

As I said, you want them, you can have them.

What makes the termarrestor system none listable?

 

[romex jockey]

WOW. I'm an inspector and a contractor, which probably gives me one more card in my wallet than you have. I'm also a past president of the Southern California Chapter of the International Assoc. of Electrical Inspectors and a founding board member of the California Electrical Inspectors. I think I'm interested.

Good , i'm an IAEI green mountain chapter member and people like you are who we are interested in an exchange with

I would like your take on the following>>>(one of many i could post btw)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLmC5quELrE

2-76 Log #687 NEC-P02 Final Action: Reject
(210.12)
________________________________________________________________
Submitter: Robert Huddleston, Jr., RLH Engineering Consulting
Recommendation: Revise text to read as follows:
210.12(A): All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits
supplying outlets…shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter,
combination-type, installed to provide parallel arc fault protection of the branch
circuit.
210.12(B): Branch Circuit Extensions or Modifications – Dwelling Units. (1)
A listed combination-type AFCI located at the origin of the branch circuit.
Substantiation: A CD shall be provided to each Code-panel Principal Voting
Member showing actual real-world testing of combination-type AFCIs. This
testing clearly demonstrates and proves that these devices do not trip when
sensing a real-world series arc-fault, as they are advertised. Regardless of the
type of series arc fault (loose connection, broken wire, damaged cord, junction
box splice failure), combination-type AFCI devices do not trip and provide
protection even though they claim to provide such. Please view the Powerpoint
presentation on the CD and click on the imbedded video for testing results. It is
completely inappropriate for the National Electrical Code to specify and
require equipment that does not work properly. It is sincerely hoped that the
Panel will correct this issue.
Note: Supporting material is available for review at NFPA Headquarters.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: Replication of the experiments shown in the video shows
that there is minimal actual arcing occurring. When arcing does occur, causing
the sparking seen in the video, its duration is very short and the energy is three
orders of magnitude below what is required to ignite the NM cable or
surrounding materials.
The waveform looks the same as when a wall switch is switched on and off.
If the AFCI responded to this waveform it would increase the incidence of
unwanted tripping while not contributing significantly to mitigating fire hazards.
Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 10 Abstain: 1
Explanation of Abstention:
ORLOWSKI, S.: See my Explanation of Vote on Proposal 2-92.

What this insinuates is, CMP-2 knows ALL ABOUT arc signatures relative to their incendiary limits....

~RJ~

 

[romex jockey]

What makes the termarrestor system none listable?

English Bureaucracy , their finest hour .......

~RJ~

 

[ICC]

Link out, sorry


BTW, when we talk about a coil, are we talking about GFP or low magnetic trip breakers?

One again...

http://www.incendies-origine-electr...electrique_electrical_fires_proposal_nec.html

Thank you

 

[mbrooke]

One again...

http://www.incendies-origine-electr...electrique_electrical_fires_proposal_nec.html

Thank you

Welcome and thank you


I see, so a GFCI breaker?

 

[cowboyjwc]

Good , i'm an IAEI green mountain chapter member and people like you are who we are interested in an exchange with

I would like your take on the following>>>(one of many i could post btw)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLmC5quELrE



What this insinuates is, CMP-2 knows ALL ABOUT arc signatures relative to their incendiary limits....

~RJ~

Well remember that each panel is made up of 1/3 contractors, 1/3 engineers, and 1/3 manufactures. I would think that if it was really such a deal that the first third would have voted for the change. The CMP members are no longer listed in the code book so I don't have any idea what their affiliation or experience is.

 

[mbrooke]

Good , i'm an IAEI green mountain chapter member and people like you are who we are interested in an exchange with

I would like your take on the following>>>(one of many i could post btw)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLmC5quELrE



What this insinuates is, CMP-2 knows ALL ABOUT arc signatures relative to their incendiary limits....

~RJ~

So wait, they actually admit the arcing is not a problem and a regular AFCI won't be able to catch it?

 

[romex jockey]

So wait, they actually admit the arcing is not a problem and a regular AFCI won't be able to catch it?

They apparently have published substantiations w/o supporting literature or logic Mr MBrooke


~RJ~

 

[romex jockey]

Well remember that each panel is made up of 1/3 contractors, 1/3 engineers, and 1/3 manufactures. I would think that if it was really such a deal that the first third would have voted for the change. The CMP members are no longer listed in the code book so I don't have any idea what their affiliation or experience is.

I have old nec's back to 1/2 century ago Cowboy.

As i've stated , noted are perennial ,if not concurrent seats with multiple entities throughout the years

The influence of collusion should be relevant to even the most reclusive , especially in their responses

But i digress....If one really wants to know how our trade operates, please read the OP's publication

This will not be published anywhere in America but on the 'net

~RJ~

 

[mbrooke]

They apparently have published substantiations w/o supporting literature or logic Mr MBrooke


~RJ~

I'd say so. Yet manufactures seem to worry about series arcing a great deal in regard to what is shown in the mentioned video... No one seems to be one the same page, let alone be in consecutive agreement.

 

[romex jockey]

True Mr MBrooke

One might say it's our trades 'global warming'

The real nitty gritty boils down to the ave spark (guilty as charged) being somewhat complacent of electrical theory

For example, why would i, for instance, be high 5's for 690.11, yet totally opposed to 210.12?

~RJ~

 

[iwire]

True Mr MBrooke

One might say it's our trades 'global warming'

Yes, the AFCI rules are as deadly to the world as global warming. :lol:

 

[mbrooke]

True Mr MBrooke

One might say it's our trades 'global warming'

The real nitty gritty boils down to the ave spark (guilty as charged) being somewhat complacent of electrical theory

For example, why would i, for instance, be high 5's for 690.11, yet totally opposed to 210.12?

~RJ~

The average spark, and Id even say CMP member, is not schooled on theory as they should be and that is no accident...

 

[iwire]

The average spark, and Id even say CMP member, is not schooled on theory as they should be and that is no accident...

Are you trying to sound nuttier than RJ? You are doing a great job of it.

 

[mbrooke]

Are you trying to sound nuttier than RJ? You are doing a great job of it.

You don't have to believe it in order for it to be true. Control education and you control everything; ditto for information, studies and statics.

 

[romex jockey]

Are you trying to sound nuttier than RJ? You are doing a great job of it.

Please answer the Q i posed Mr. Iwire , otherwise please allow my point to be addressed by others here.

thank you for your participation

~RJ~

 

[romex jockey]

I'll even throw in a HUGE hint>>>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zez2r1RPpWY

~RJ~

 

[cowboyjwc]

Are you trying to sound nuttier than RJ? You are doing a great job of it.

Hey once I found out that the NFPA was responsible for the raising oil prices, I knew that they were capable of anything. Or maybe the Illuminati have taken over the NEC.