A Publication AFCI manufacturers and CMPs don't want you to read

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Sierrasparky said:
The bigger problem is that the code is implementing more and more code to deal with poor manufacturing or reduced minimum quality standards.

Look at Dish washer. implementation of AFCI and GFCI

Look at the crappy sheathing we now have. The old romex was difficult to damage , The stuff we have today is too delicate and easy to damage.
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Ding, Ding, Ding, we have winner! :) Most of the ROPs for AFCI/GFCI appliances came from employees working for appliance manufacturers. Entire web pages are dedicated to appliance fires:


http://kitchenaidfire.com/
 
mbrooke said:
By the 80s it had already been determined that North American circuit breakers were somehow inadequate. Yet I still have to see the documentation that was used to reach or support those claims.
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Hello.

North American circuit breakers had just needed a coil... :)

Best regards
 
cowboyjwc said:
They could have, they could have voted down handle ties on multi wire branch circuits, two ground rods, GFCI's everywhere, and numerous other code sections but they didn't, because it's their job to provide as much safety as possible to the public.

And will remain unproven, since you will never know, because there is no reporting mechanism in place to report a fire that didn't happen. I ask this question time and time again when this argument comes up, but do you know how many lives are saved by GFCI's? I'll answer it for you, no you don't, because no one writes a report about how they dropped the toaster in the sink and the GFCI worked like it was supposed to. I can look at reports though and tell you how many people died because there wasn't a GFCI installed.
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Hello. You are right. But the law of physics are the same anywhere. You can see other countryS where Gfcis operates since decades...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMC6PkpiIq4

Best regards,

FICC-
 
ICC said:
Hello.

North American circuit breakers had just needed a coil... :)

Best regards
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The 'Toroidal coil' has been the heart of the RCD for over 1/2 century

simple and effective ,without electronica

It is the chief component in GFCI / AFCI technology as well

Yet no matter how much electronics are lumped onto a toroidal coil , the toridal coil will only operate within the physical limits of a toridal coil

This then, is the crux of the debate for those who point to gfci in defense of afci's

This is also WHY Dr Engel spammed cmp-2 with many rop's

Nothing on the electrical market addresses the number one electrical incendiary culprit >>Glowing connections

~RJ~
 
Those are toroidal coils Mr Iwire

The trip levels are inconsequential juxtaposed to the functionality

Which does not change if in an RCD, GFCI, or AFCI

~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
And one reason is ,it's a creation that has slipped through the cracks of a huge international patent war

~RJ~
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You can have them if you want them, we don’t.

Nothing to do with patents, they won’t get a BS-EN specification as they rely on causing a fault that is subsequently detected up by an upstream device.

Attaching them to DNO (PoCo) equipment as shown on their website is illegal in the UK.
 
romex jockey said:
Those are toroidal coils Mr Iwire

The trip levels are inconsequential juxtaposed to the functionality

Which does not change if in an RCD, GFCI, or AFCI

~RJ~
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RJ, names have meanings, here in the US a GFCI is a specific item with specific settings. It is not a RCD, it is not a AFCI.
 
Tony S said:
.

Nothing to do with patents, .
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Sorry, no Mr Tony S

International patent law are a delicate instrument

It boils down to an agreed fair trade between manufactures relying on their perspective government for oversight

For ex, the Chinese have marketed copy cat designs for decades , which is the bane of the manufacturing sector

In this particular case ,UK manufacturers have prostituted a patent loophole , which ranks their level of respect for fair practice on par with said Chinese.

~RJ~
 
iwire said:
RJ, names have meanings, here in the US a GFCI is a specific item with specific settings. It is not a RCD, it is not a AFCI.
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Yes they have meanings and specific settings

All predicated on ONE concept Mr Iwire

Grasping this point alone would save much ado .....

~RJ~
 
iwire said:
Those are not GFCIs. Here those would be GFP at best.

GFCIs must have a trip level between 4 to 6 MA.
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Ok, thank you very much for the precision IWIRE.
Can you tell me what is the difference between a differential device, a GFP and a GFCI, please?
Thank you in advance,
Sincerely,
ICC-
 
romex jockey said:
Sorry, no Mr Tony S

International patent law are a delicate instrument

It boils down to an agreed fair trade between manufactures relying on their perspective government for oversight

For ex, the Chinese have marketed copy cat designs for decades , which is the bane of the manufacturing sector

In this particular case ,UK manufacturers have prostituted a patent loophole , which ranks their level of respect for fair practice on par with said Chinese.

~RJ~
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You can have all trade agreements you want. Thermarrestor will not get a BS-EN listing and I doubt a UL listing.

As I said, you want them, you can have them.
 
romex jockey said:
Correct the CSPC took part in what was a NEMA sponsored contest. Dr Joe Engel's 2012 dissertation to the IEEE spelled that all out.

As one of the original Nema's afci task force , he and his fellow members admitted failure. Nema simply hired new task force people that bent the rules afterwards

In fact, one can cross correlate CSPC,CMP-2 (or alt's) ,NEMA & even UL seats/employees throughout the last 2 decades.

There's more if you'd like to read it in Mr Charles' publication. It, along with the likes of Dr Engel & Bob Huddleston will never grace a trade periodical

If you (et all) are interested in the viability of our trades integrity, i invite to to read,ask & make your own mind up.

If not , please leave it to those that will do so

~RJ~
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WOW. I'm an inspector and a contractor, which probably gives me one more card in my wallet than you have. I'm also a past president of the Southern California Chapter of the International Assoc. of Electrical Inspectors and a founding board member of the California Electrical Inspectors. I think I'm interested.
 
romex jockey said:
Yes they have meanings and specific settings

All predicated on ONE concept Mr Iwire

Grasping this point alone would save much ado .....

~RJ~
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If you actually read the post I quoted and responded to it might aid in your understanding of my point. It had nothing to do with you and you did not have to jump in. :thumbsup:
 
cowboyjwc said:
WOW. I'm an inspector and a contractor, which probably gives me one more card in my wallet than you have. I'm also a past president of the Southern California Chapter of the International Assoc. of Electrical Inspectors and a founding board member of the California Electrical Inspectors. I think I'm interested.
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Hello Sir,

In the video report The Electrical French Connection or The real...etc... (part 1 in my mémory) I believe that a very experienced engineer joined the GCI project (this expert engineer controlled 1250 engineers and technicians of the largest French control office).

It's in French here :

http://www.incendies-origine-electrique-electrical-fires.com/avis_dexpert_jean_pierre_denonain.html

In fact these publications should interest you.
Sorry for my English Sir,
Best regards.
:)
ICC-
 
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