A succinct description?

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ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
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Austin, TX, USA
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Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
So, seeing as the title of this subforum is "Grounding versus Bonding", can anyone give me a succinct description of the distinction between the two? I'll admit to harboring some confusion as to what the difference is.
 
ggunn said:
So, seeing as the title of this subforum is "Grounding versus Bonding", can anyone give me a succinct description of the distinction between the two? I'll admit to harboring some confusion as to what the difference is.
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You and me both.
 
ggunn said:
So, seeing as the title of this subforum is "Grounding versus Bonding", can anyone give me a succinct description of the distinction between the two? I'll admit to harboring some confusion as to what the difference is.
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I believe it is this. Bond, bonding, bonded is the act of joining conductive surfaces together to ensure continuity. Grounding is Creating a path specifically to ground. So all grounding requires bonding, but not all bonding ensures grounding. This is just a guess, though. As in, speaking out my butt:lol::happysad::slaphead:
 
This issue will never be resolved until the NEC stops using the term grounding when they really mean bonding.
 
I think MH said it best in the Bonding/Grounding DVD-and I paraphrase here-Grounding is hooking up to dirt for high voltage transients--bonding is hooking everything else to the grounding and to provide a path to clear a fault
 
ggunn said:
So, seeing as the title of this subforum is "Grounding versus Bonding", can anyone give me a succinct description of the distinction between the two? I'll admit to harboring some confusion as to what the difference is.
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The fact that the nec/nfpa/cmp's have not resolved this is perhaps the greatest conundrum of the common era. Imo they should also make system dirting, equipment dirting, and bonding/fault clearing different articles since they are different systems and serve different purposes
 
I have resolved the issue by using the terms Equipment Ground, grounded and or neutral as needed, and earth according to the use intended.

IMO there is one Bond and it is at the service or SDS. Every thing else talked about as bonding is equipment grounding. Forget about changing everything from grounding to bonding and start using Equipment Grounding and things clear up. I know I'm right about this because it works for me.
 
ActionDave said:
I have resolved the issue by using the terms Equipment Ground, grounded and or neutral as needed, and earth according to the use intended.

IMO there is one Bond and it is at the service or SDS. Every thing else talked about as bonding is equipment grounding. Forget about changing everything from grounding to bonding and start using Equipment Grounding and things clear up. I know I'm right about this because it works for me.
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I kind of agree with you.

I think the bigger problem is people are not recognizing there is a difference between the terms grounded and grounding.

Bonded to me simply means to tie together, and we are usually talking about grounding conductors when we use the term.

I do agree that using the full term "equipment grounding conductor" seems to clarify things a little better, which I think the NEC does this pretty well, but many still only see the word "ground" in there and seem to disregard all the supporting text.

People seem to understand what is usually being talked about when you use the word "neutral" problem is there are things like corner grounded delta systems that still have a "grounded conductor" but do not have a "neutral". But the rules for this "grounded conductor" are the same as they are for a neutral in a system where the neutral is the "grounded conductor".
 
kwired said:
I kind of agree with you.

I think the bigger problem is people are not recognizing there is a difference between the terms grounded and grounding.

Bonded to me simply means to tie together, and we are usually talking about grounding conductors when we use the term.

I do agree that using the full term "equipment grounding conductor" seems to clarify things a little better, which I think the NEC does this pretty well, but many still only see the word "ground" in there and seem to disregard all the supporting text.

People seem to understand what is usually being talked about when you use the word "neutral" problem is there are things like corner grounded delta systems that still have a "grounded conductor" but do not have a "neutral". But the rules for this "grounded conductor" are the same as they are for a neutral in a system where the neutral is the "grounded conductor".
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From me:

Grounded conductor: One of the conductors needed for energy transfer that is connected to ground.

Grounding conductor: An additional conductor connected to ground at one end, with the other available for safety grounding.
 
ActionDave said:
I have resolved the issue by using the terms Equipment Ground, grounded and or neutral as needed, and earth according to the use intended.

IMO there is one Bond and it is at the service or SDS. Every thing else talked about as bonding is equipment grounding. Forget about changing everything from grounding to bonding and start using Equipment Grounding and things clear up. I know I'm right about this because it works for me.
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I don't agree. Everything else is equipment bonding. The connection to earth has nothing to do with the conductor that we call the Equipment Grounding Conductor. It is the fault clearing conductor and it must be connected to the grounded conductor of a grounded system to do its job.

The fact that the code continues to call it a grounding conductor, leads to a lot of misunderstanding of the real purpose and function of the EGC.
 
I have always thought Strathead's explanation made sense (maybe incorrectly). From a knucklehead's perspective(me), why can't "bonding" include ungrounded applications. What do you call the "jumpers" that connect across the utility poles? Again, I always considered Strathead's use of the term, not always implying anything to do with"ground"
 
USMC1302 said:
I have always thought Strathead's explanation made sense (maybe incorrectly). From a knucklehead's perspective(me), why can't "bonding" include ungrounded applications. What do you call the "jumpers" that connect across the utility poles? Again, I always considered Strathead's use of the term, not always implying anything to do with"ground"
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Just so you know, the code clearly states that bonded (bonding) is connected to establish electrical continuity and conductivity. That is in the definitions. It does not mention earth or ground in reference to the term bond.
 
Strathead, I agree. It just seems that the association with grounding, grounded is sometimes assumed when using the "bonding" term
 
And here I thought bonding was what happens when you take your teenage son on a weekend fishing trip, and grounding is what happens when you find out your teenage son took your car out for a joyride. :ashamed:
 
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