A succinct description?

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USMC1302 said:
I have always thought Strathead's explanation made sense (maybe incorrectly). From a knucklehead's perspective(me), why can't "bonding" include ungrounded applications. What do you call the "jumpers" that connect across the utility poles? Again, I always considered Strathead's use of the term, not always implying anything to do with"ground"
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Ungrounded system applications do still require all the same bonding of non current carrying components as is done in a grounded system. There just is no connection to a grounded conductor, at least in normal operation there is not.
 
kwired said:
Ungrounded system applications do still require all the same bonding of non current carrying components as is done in a grounded system. There
Code:
just is no connection to a grounded conductor, at least in normal operation there is not.
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Perhaps an even better example is the equipotential grid protecting a pool.
All of the components are bonded together and it is not necessary for irs proper functioning that it also be grounded. Grounding individual components, on the other hand, can result in potential differences.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I don't agree. Everything else is equipment bonding. The connection to earth has nothing to do with the conductor that we call the Equipment Grounding Conductor. It is the fault clearing conductor and it must be connected to the grounded conductor of a grounded system to do its job.

The fact that the code continues to call it a grounding conductor, leads to a lot of misunderstanding of the real purpose and function of the EGC.
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I feel the same. It just seems easier to use the term Equipment Ground where needed to differentiate from a connection to Earth. It's what all of us do for clarity now.

Further if you save the word Bond for the one place it is needed to be made to make an electrical system work like it is supposed to it keeps things simple for those of us who, while not stupid, do like things simple.

"Bond the neutral to the ground here and here only."

"But my CCE instructor said I was supposed to bond everything." .......

And the conversation goes on.....much like the ones that go on when discussing grounded vs grounding. Why add another layer of complexity and another three generations of jargon to overcome? If I use the term Equipment Ground you know exactly what I am talking about.
 
ggunn said:
So, seeing as the title of this subforum is "Grounding versus Bonding", can anyone give me a succinct description of the distinction between the two? I'll admit to harboring some confusion as to what the difference is.
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My .02 cents. Grounding is on the line side of the Main breaker. Everything after the Main breaker is Bonded.
Correct me if I am mistaken
 
John120/240 said:
My .02 cents. Grounding is on the line side of the Main breaker. Everything after the Main breaker is Bonded.
Correct me if I am mistaken
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You must not put much faith in your opinion because .02 cents = $.0002:)

I will say that grounding is connecting to "earth".

Bonding is connecting items together.

We are usually "bonding" things to "grounded" conductors.

So we usually are indirectly "grounding" when we are bonding.

I would also say "grounding" is typically only done via "grounding electrodes"
 
kwired said:
You must not put much faith in your opinion because .02 cents = $.0002:)

I will say that grounding is connecting to "earth".

Bonding is connecting items together.

We are usually "bonding" things to "grounded" conductors.

So we usually are indirectly "grounding" when we are bonding.

I would also say "grounding" is typically only done via "grounding electrodes"
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I'll buy that.

Here's my $.02

Keep the change.
 
All one has to do for a complete understanding is study 250.4. This section will tell you just what needs to be accomplished.
 
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jwelectric said:
All one has to do for a complete understanding is study 250.4. This section will tell you just what needs to be accomplished.
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Good reference, it does cover it pretty well.

But like I said earlier, the Cliff's notes version is grounding is connecting to earth, bonding is connecting things together - and we are usually bonding to something that is connected to earth either directly or via additional conductors.
 
Grounded- carries current and is supposed to.
Equipment Grounding- carries fault current when needed.
Bond- what is needed to make it all work.
Bonding- a term I have no use for other than to describe what I am doing when I am in the act of bonding the grounded conductor in order to make sure all the equipment grounding works the way it is supposed to.
 
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ActionDave said:
Grounded- carries current and is supposed to.
Equipment Grounding- carries fault current when needed.
Bond- what is needed to make it all work.
Bonding- a term I have no use for other than to describe what I am doing when I am in the act of bonding the grounded conductor in order to make sure all the equipment grounding works the way it is supposed to.
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Grounded - can carry current under normal operation but does not have to.

Bond- I guess it depends on what you are talking about when you say "work". The connected loads typically will work whether any "bonding" to equipment grounding conductors is done or not.
 
We connect our electrical systems to earth for four reasons and only for these four reasons;
Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will limit the voltage imposed by lightning, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.

Engineers are being taught and are teaching that earth is some sort of a sponge for electrons. This can be found in this video from the link in post 31 of this thread. Listen what this engineer has to say;
http://electrical-engineering-porta...erence-between-bonding-grounding-and-earthing

About the author; ignesh Parmar has completed his B.E(Electrical) from Gujarat University. He has more than 12 years experience in Power Transmission-Power Distribution-Electrical Theft detection-Electrical Maintenance-Projects (Planning-Designing-coordination-Execution)

Changing the name of the EGC will have no effect on this nonsense that is being taught by those with a formal education. The only way to stop this confusion is to give the proper education to those who believe this nonsense.

Anyone who thinks that changing the name of anything somehow gives us an education; well I just don?t know what to say. The only way to gain an understanding of anything is through education. There are many out here that has no problem what so ever with the use of the term equipment grounding conductor and we didn?t get this understanding by calling it anything other than what it is, we got it from education.
 
jwelectric said:
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Anyone who thinks that changing the name of anything somehow gives us an education; well I just don?t know what to say. The only way to gain an understanding of anything is through education. There are many out here that has no problem what so ever with the use of the term equipment grounding conductor and we didn?t get this understanding by calling it anything other than what it is, we got it from education.
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I agree that changing the name does not educate people as to the function of the conductor, however, far too many people that work with electrical systems are "uneducated" in this subject matter, and this number is increasing, not decreasing.

Changing the name will help eliminate the idea that all you have to do to make the equipment safe is to connect the non-current carrying parts to the earth. Like I said in previous threads on this issue, talk to the people who use the Canadian Electrical Code. I have been told my a number of people involved that the understanding of this issue improved with the name change and instructors have said it became easier to "educate" people after the name change.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
....eliminate the idea that all you have to do to make the equipment safe is to connect the non-current carrying parts to the earth. Like I said in previous threads on this issue, talk to the people who use the Canadian Electrical Code. I have been told my a number of people involved that the understanding of this issue improved with the name change and instructors have said it became easier to "educate" people after the name change.
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Let's schedule the name change for the same time that we finally move to the metric system. :)
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I agree that changing the name does not educate people as to the function of the conductor, however, far too many people that work with electrical systems are "uneducated" in this subject matter, and this number is increasing, not decreasing.

Changing the name will help eliminate the idea that all you have to do to make the equipment safe is to connect the non-current carrying parts to the earth. Like I said in previous threads on this issue, talk to the people who use the Canadian Electrical Code. I have been told my a number of people involved that the understanding of this issue improved with the name change and instructors have said it became easier to "educate" people after the name change.
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What did CEC change the names to?

I have no problem with the names currently used. I can see other names being just as confusing to some.

Take those people that have difficulty with the differences on a common 120/240 single phase system and throw a corner grounded three phase system and they are completely lost, but both systems still have grounded and grounding conductors, as well as bonding/bonding jumpers. I honestly think same people will still be lost in that situation even if we had different names for things.
 
The solution is a simple one, educate those increasing number of folks that don?t have an understanding of the requirements of the NEC and stop not refuting those comments such as the link in this thread are teaching.
 
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