AA-8000 rated aluminum (article 310)

wwhitney said:
2020 NEC 310.3(B) does not apply to a wire so marked.

Cheers, Wayne
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Cheers to you Wayne!
310.3(B) does not apply to this wire..
don_resqcapt19 said:
The UL Guide Information for Service Entrance Cable (TYLZ) says:
" ALUMINUM ALLOYS
Solid 12, 10 or 8 AWG conductors are Recognized under Aluminum Wire Stock, Conductor Material (DVVR2). Single-rated Type USE or USE-2 cable containing other than solid 12, 10 or 8 AWG conductors are of an EC-1350 grade aluminum alloy or a registered AA-8000 series electrical-conductor-grade aluminum alloy. In all other cables, the aluminum conductors are of a registered AA-8000 electrical-conductor-grade alloy only.
...
Type USE cable utilizing EC-1350 aluminum is not dual marked with any other conductor-type letters, such as RHW-2.
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It is my opinion the the USE using the EC-1350 alloy is code complaint for your application.
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Thanks for your feedback! This has been and will continue to be a big setback on my job.
I had a crew and equipment ready to go on Wednesday morning when I got shot down by a county inspector. In the meantime I’ve been in touch with all my suppliers as well as multiple inspectors that I’m friendly with. We are all confused down here in Santa Fe and up to the top brass for New Mexico!
 
Nwood505 said:
Now I need to prove it to the head of NM CID!
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I don't see that you have anything to prove. They have to provide you with a code violation, and they will not be able to find anything stating that USE must be 8000 series aluminum

Nwood505 said:
We are all confused down here in Santa Fe and up to the top brass for New Mexico!
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Just curious and I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but what is the confusion? it all seems very clear to me.
 
electrofelon said:
I don't see that you have anything to prove. They have to provide you with a code violation, and they will not be able to find anything stating that USE must be 8000 series aluminum



Just curious and I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but what is the confusion? it all seems very clear to me.
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I would say that you are on a different level than me and everyone I’ve talked with about this in the past four days. That’s three state inspectors, one county, bureau chief, Summit and Dahl supply and all the sales folks as well as their corporate people. I’m a hard working solo electric / building contractor with 30 years in the trade. I up to my ears in business and bureaucracy. Honestly code changes I usually hear about from inspectors and supply houses before they arise. Code books are never easy for me to understand so you must be top student material;) Thank you for your help understanding this mess.
 
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Nwood505 said:
I would say that you are on a different level than me and everyone I’ve talked with about this in the past four days. That’s three state inspectors, one county, bureau chief, Summit and Dahl supply and all the sales folks as well as their corporate people. I’m a hard working solo electric / building contractor with 30 years in the trade. I up to my ears in business and bureaucracy. Honestly code changes I usually hear about from inspectors and supply houses before they arise. Code books are never easy for me to understand so you must be top student material;) Thank you for your help understanding this mess.
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Ok, the code can certainly be confusing. I certainly don't know everything and I was just wondering if there was something I was missing like perhaps another section which seems to be contradictory to the one that was posted, or some other detail that muddies the waters. There doesn't seem to be any gray area here so far. I just said this recently in another thread, but perhaps it's a case of people simply not reading what the code book actually says. You'd be surprised how often that happens.
 
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It’s been a learning experience for me for me in many ways. As far as the wire is concerned it seems to me that this is a corporate move to start using aluminum for inside house circuitry in the future. That’s going to be a hard pill to swallow for the older generation of electricians as we have spent our careers having to rewire or pigtail houses that were wired in aluminum.
This is also a first time for me to need to dispute a code violation with an inspector, let alone the entire agency.
 
Nwood505 said:
It’s been a learning experience for me for me in many ways. As far as the wire is concerned it seems to me that this is a corporate move to start using aluminum for inside house circuitry in the future. That’s going to be a hard pill to swallow for the older generation of electricians as we have spent our careers having to rewire or pigtail houses that were wired in aluminum.
This is also a first time for me to need to dispute a code violation with an inspector, let alone the entire agency.
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The use of aluminum for circuits 40 amps and larger is common in many areas. I am not aware of anyone making 15 and 20 amp rated aluminum conductors. I don't think they have been available since the mid 70s. However the is a push to use copper-clad-aluminum for 15 and 20 amp circuits.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The use of aluminum for circuits 40 amps and larger is common in many areas. I am not aware of anyone making 15 and 20 amp rated aluminum conductors. I don't think they have been available since the mid 70s. However the is a push to use copper-clad-aluminum for 15 and 20 amp circuits.
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don_resqcapt19 said:
The use of aluminum for circuits 40 amps and larger is common in many areas. I am not aware of anyone making 15 and 20 amp rated aluminum conductors. I don't think they have been available since the mid 70s. However the is a push to use copper-clad-aluminum for 15 and 20 amp circuits.
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From what I’ve been reading the new technology with aluminum conductors is supposed to be as good as copper and it would not surprise me to start see romex for 15/20 amp rating in aluminum in the near future.
 
Nwood505 said:
From what I’ve been reading the new technology with aluminum conductors is supposed to be as good as copper and it would not surprise me to start see romex for 15/20 amp rating in aluminum in the near future.
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AA-8000 isn't new technology. It has been the standard for aluminum building wire for over 50 years. I believe 1972?

I don't see AL replacing small copper conductors again. One company is pushing CCA aluminum but none of the big manufactures seems to be sold on it. Going back to AL would require special devices and connectors. CCA can generally be use with standard connectors designed for CU but the connector manufacture need to pay an NTRL to get the additional listing for their connectors.
 
Nwood505 said:
From what I’ve been reading the new technology with aluminum conductors is supposed to be as good as copper and it would not surprise me to start see romex for 15/20 amp rating in aluminum in the near future.
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That technology for aluminum conductors has been available since the mid 70's and no one is making 15 and 20 amp aluminum conductors, and as far as I know no manufacturer is even thinking about it. As I said in my earlier post, the push is for copper clad aluminum conductors in 14 AWG for 10 amp circuits, 12 AWG for 15 amp circuits and 10 AWG for 20 amp circuits. 15 and 20 amp copper clad aluminum NM is on the market now.
 
curt swartz said:
AA-8000 isn't new technology. It has been the standard for aluminum building wire for over 50 years. I believe 1972?

I don't see AL replacing small copper conductors again. One company is pushing CCA aluminum but none of the big manufactures seems to be sold on it. Going back to AL would require special devices and connectors. CCA can generally be use with standard connectors designed for CU but the connector manufacture need to pay an NTRL to get the additional listing for their connectors.
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Yes it was on the market for a few years around that time, but because of the reputation of the old aluminum, the sales did not support the continued production.
It was a good product...I worked on a 100 unit apartment complex in that time frame, and we used 10 and 12 AWG new alloy single conductor aluminum and we had no more problems with that wire than with other projects run in copper. All of the wiring devices were CO/ALR.
Not sure if they ever used the new alloy aluminum in NM cable in that time frame. The project I worked on was done in EMT because of local codes prohibiting NM if there was more than four units in a building.
 
hbiss said:
I see there is a company pushing copperweld wiring in 15 and 20A sizes. Ugggh!

-Hal
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been a huge part of the last two code cycles...it appears that 16 AWG copper and 14 AWG copper clad aluminum will be approved for 10 amp circuits in the 2026 code.

I see no issues with aluminum or copper clad aluminum.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
been a huge part of the last two code cycles...it appears that 16 AWG copper and 14 AWG copper clad aluminum will be approved for 10 amp circuits in the 2026 code.

I see no issues with aluminum or copper clad aluminum.
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Has there ever been a problem with CCA?

My impression is that it never took off in the 1970s because of the bad rap of solid aluminum, and copper came back down.

Copper is way up now, but the way they are rolling it out so slowly seems very cautious to me.
 
Birken Vogt said:
Has there ever been a problem with CCA?

My impression is that it never took off in the 1970s because of the bad rap of solid aluminum, and copper came back down.

Copper is way up now, but the way they are rolling it out so slowly seems very cautious to me.
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I don't think CCA was used very much in that time frame. I don't recall any marketing for CCA back then, but there was for the smaller 8000 series aluminum conductors.

I know that the new alloy aluminum in the smaller sizes that was available in the mid 70s, did not sell because of "bad rap" of the stuff used prior to that.
As I said in a previous post, there was no more problems with the new alloy aluminum than with copper conductors, and it was just market conditions that took it off the market.
 
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electrofelon said:
I will admit that until this thread, I never noticed that the only USE stuff was 1350 aluminum. One of my supply houses stocks this stuff. Even if I don't need the RHH rating for indoor use, I think I will try to avoid this as the 8,000 is a better alloy for terminations.
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It can vary in different areas on what may be in stock. Around here most triplex assemblies are dual rated and AA-8000 series alloys. Most quad-plex assemblies are straight USE and not AA-8000 alloys. But a majority of those quad plex assemblies are also used in agricultural locations and do not enter a building. Most utility companies use straight USE rated as well but again seldom would those be entering a building.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I don't think CCA was used very much in that time frame. I don't recall any marketing for CCA back then, but there was for the smaller 8000 series aluminum conductors.
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The reason I asked; a quick search showed 1 or 2 posts of somebody who found CCA as original equipment in their early 70s house and was asking how to terminate it.

I've never seen the old original stuff either or know anybody who has. Maybe it was a regional thing? Maybe they won the lottery of the small population that is installed?
 
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