AA-8000 rated aluminum (article 310)

[electrofelon]

I am just curious if you can clarify in your state of Illinois this transformer you speak of that contains inside it a NEC service point,

1. Is it under exclusive control of the utility?
2. Is it on property owned or leased by the electric utility?
3. Is is for the purpose of transformation or transmission?
4. Is it located in legally established easements or rights or way?

We frequently have the service point at the secondary spades so I will comment also:

1. I would say the transformer is under exclusive control of the utility, but it has customer owned conductors inside. If I need to service or inspect them I will call the utility for access.

2. Typically they are on private property. The utility gets an easement for their equipment.

3. Clearly it transforms the voltage. I would say it is not part of the transmission system.

4 see #2. Sometimes they can be on public property, which is often called the right of way.

 

[tortuga]

We frequently have the service point at the secondary spades so I will comment also:

1. I would say the transformer is under exclusive control of the utility, but it has customer owned conductors inside. If I need to service or inspect them I will call the utility for access.

2. Typically they are on private property. The utility gets an easement for their equipment.

3. Clearly it transforms the voltage. I would say it is not part of the transmission system.

4 see #2. Sometimes they can be on public property, which is often called the right of way.

Can we agree that meets 90.2 'not covered' then?

 

[electrofelon]

Can we agree that meets 90.2 'not covered' then?

The utility transformer? Yes not covered by the NEC

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I am just curious if you can clarify in your state of Illinois this transformer you speak of that contains inside it a NEC service point,

1. Is it under exclusive control of the utility?
2. Is it on property owned or leased by the electric utility?
3. Is is for the purpose of transformation or transmission?
4. Is it located in legally established easements or rights or way?

No thats part of the premises wiring.

These are not rules of the State of Illinois...these are rules found in the service manual of the various utilities that supply power to customers.

1)The transformer is under the exclusive control of the utility, but just like with the meter, conductors covered by the NEC can be connected inside equipment that is under the exclusive control of the utility.

2)The transformer may be on public property or private property. In most cases, the commercial pad mount transformer is located on property of the building that the transformer supplies.

3) Not sure what else a transformer does...of course it transforms voltages

4) It may or may not be, see #2

I think we are done here....we will NEVER agree on this point.

Have a nice day.

 

[tortuga]

These are not rules of the State of Illinois...these are rules found in the service manual of the various utilities that supply power to customers.

1)The transformer is under the exclusive control of the utility, but just like with the meter, conductors covered by the NEC can be connected inside equipment that is under the exclusive control of the utility.

2)The transformer may be on public property or private property. In most cases, the commercial pad mount transformer is located on property of the building that the transformer supplies.

3) Not sure what else a transformer does...of course it transforms voltages

4) It may or may not be, see #2

I think we are done here....we will NEVER agree on this point.

Don I mean no disrespect and I appreciate your comments I am sorry if my stance on matter offends you.

The utility transformer? Yes not covered by the NEC

Then can we at least agree that a NEC 'service point' has to be in location 'covered' by the NEC and not in a location 'Not Covered'?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Don I mean no disrespect and I appreciate your comments I am sorry if my stance on matter offends you.


Then can we at least agree that a NEC 'service point' has to be in location 'covered' by the NEC and not in a location 'Not Covered'?

It doesn't offend me...there is just nothing more to be said.

We cannot agree on that.

As I said we have totally different ideas on what the rules say, and neither of us are going to change the others mind, so we call it a day.

 

[electrofelon]

Then can we at least agree that a NEC 'service point' has to be in location 'covered' by the NEC and not in a location 'Not Covered'?

maybe. The NEC might not cover Anything other than the conductors on the load side of the service point. Say it's a utility owned termination box, them IMO box sizing would not be covered by the NEC. If is customer owned, then NEC would cover everything except the utility conductors.

 

[kwired]

Service Point was added to Article 100 in the 1993 edition. The terms "service conductors, overhead" and "service conductors, underground" were in the code long before that. The oldest code I have is the 73 and those terms are in that edition.

Could been 93. I just don't recall ever seeing much emphasis being placed on "service point" until maybe 10-15 years later than that and for some reason thought it was that time frame when it was added.

 

[Fred B]

Didn't realize the amount of disparity between various POCO across the county on this subject.
Around me if it is an underground it is the customer owned and the service point is at the POCO pole.
If it is underground and make connection in a hand hole that make connection to other occupancies out of the handhole the service point is in the hand hole and customer owns the wire from the building to the handhole.
If it is overhead the the services point is either at a private pole or side of building weather head. POCO will own up to either the first private pole or the side of building weather head.

 

[tortuga]

Didn't realize the amount of disparity between various POCO across the county on this subject.

Here the utility is allergic to the NEC they will break out in a rash if it gets near their equipment.

 

[tortuga]

Here are some examples of how its done here
these show locations where the NEC applies and does not apply;


And for a OH system;

 

[electrofelon]

Here are some examples of how its done here
these show locations where the NEC applies and does not apply;

I don't disagree with anything in the pictures. Remind me what we are debating?

 

[tortuga]

I don't disagree with anything in the pictures. Remind me what we are debating?

From what I gather the op described an installation like this diagram. The inspector said the wire marked 'service lateral' in the diagram falls under NEC rules including the New Mexico NEC amendments.

 

[wwhitney]

From what I gather the op described an installation like this diagram.

Except the choice of the location of the service point is arbitrary and could be anywhere between the pole and the meter, depending on POCO policy and local convention. If it's anywhere other than the meter, then the service conductors between the service point and the meter are subject to the NEC.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[tortuga]

Except the choice of the location of the service point is arbitrary and could be anywhere between the pole and the meter, depending on POCO policy and local convention. If it's anywhere other than the meter, then the service conductors between the service point and the meter are subject to the NEC.

Cheers, Wayne

Yes as long as the Service Point is located where the NEC applies.
The NEC does not apply to utility-controlled installations used for transmission, distribution, or transformation if they are on utility-owned or leased property, within legal easements or rights-of-way, or governed by written agreements.