Aarp

[R Bob]

There is an interesting article, On Your Side by Ron Burley, in the July/August issue of AARP magazine entitled "Plumb Crazy".

The article tells the story of an AARP member who called a plumber for a leaking toilet.

The plumber assessed the situation and told the customer that they needed a "major rebuild" and quoted a price of $840.00.

The job was completed in 90mins and consisted of a new float, tank seal, and fill pipe. The bill was paid w/a Discover Card.

The customer challenged the charge w/the plumbing company and Discover to no avail. Both companies cited a "fixed price" that the customer agreed to.

The customer then contacted AARP for assistance. Armed with quotes from another plumber($300.00) and Lowe's(a new toilet installed for $220.00), the AARP consumer advocate attempted to resolve the dispute with the plumbing company who would not budge.

Ultimately, the advocate brokered a deal with Discover who conceded that the customer was overcharged and issued a credit of $600.00.

Some of AARP's recommendations:

Agree to an hourly rate not a fixed price!
Pay no more than retail for the parts or purchase them yourself!

Sorry about the length of the post. I would have normally inserted a link, but the article wasn't available on-line.

 

[ericsherman37]

Pay no more than retail for the parts...!

I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, contractors do a mark-up on supplied materials. We've had customers offer to buy the stuff themselves, with our guidance, and that's fine... but if the plumber brings materials himself then I think it would be expected that they are marked up for billing.

That being said, I'm glad the consumer advocacy person at AARP got on this. Bummer the plumbing company wouldn't budge - hopefully they get bad marks for swindling people.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Yes their are some ruth less contractors out their.
Some body in Raleigh NC was charged with a crime. They charged an old lady $30,000 to cut down a tree.

I keep a spare float valve kit. Under the bathroom sink. $12.00 -15 minutes:wink:

 

[Sparky555]

I'm interested in the other side of this story:

Did the customer call from a full-page phone book ad?
Did a live operator answer the call?
Did the company respond to the call within an hour?
Was the service after hours or a holiday?
Did the company stock every brand of toilet parts on a large service van?
...as well as every brand of faucet part, shower part so the repair could be completed without travel to a supplier?
The company accepted credit cards.
Was the tech so well trained and experienced that it took 90 minutes when it could have taken longer?

A new toilet installed for $220...the materials can be over $220.

Does AARP think you should pay more than retail for a drink at any restaurant?

 

[R Bob]

I'm interested in the other side of this story:

Did the customer call from a full-page phone book ad?
Did a live operator answer the call?
Did the company respond to the call within an hour?
Was the service after hours or a holiday?
Did the company stock every brand of toilet parts on a large service van?
...as well as every brand of faucet part, shower part so the repair could be completed without travel to a supplier?
The company accepted credit cards.
Was the tech so well trained and experienced that it took 90 minutes when it could have taken longer?

A new toilet installed for $220...the materials can be over $220.

Does AARP think you should pay more than retail for a drink at any restaurant?

All good questions.
The article didn't depict the other side of the story, other than the company not agreeing to an adjustment.
They actually named the company, they're located in Patchogue, NY.

 

[brian john]

All right I just responded to an emergency call 1/2 of a building without power.

Whats a fair price, need a JJN-800 (I think JJN), I bought two fuses for the customer.

Trouble shoot the issue, meggered the feeders, went and got the fuse and restored power what's a fair price?

Saturday woke up at 1:00 PM after just working a 24 hour straight.


If the customer had the fuse he would have saved money and IMO customers should vave spares on hand.


There are SOME contractors that take it to the extreme. But we do have a right to make a living AND if I showed up and a residential customer had NM and boxes I'd tell them to go at it. I make a living selling material.


BUT there are SOME contractors that take it to the extreme.

 

[GUNNING]

I want it now BABY!

I want it now BABY!

Ive got a friend who is a plumber that says when the water is running people will pay anything. If I had it to do all over again, I would be a plumber or maybe an a/c contractor. Being an electrcal contractor is passe'. No leverage in this immediate gratification world.

 

[cadpoint]

All right I just responded to an emergency call 1/2 of a building without power.

Whats a fair price, ..........
Saturday woke up at 1:00 PM after just working a 24 hour straight.

If the customer had the fuse he would have saved money and IMO customers should vave spares on hand.

There are SOME contractors that take it to the extreme. ........

BUT there are SOME contractors that take it to the extreme.

Brian, in all fairness, You posted you Weekend Service Rates...

Some are in the correct Rol-o-dex, some are still pondering, why not me!

 

[brantmacga]

if we could actually still purchase materials wholesale, telling someone not to pay more than retail wouldn't be much of a problem.

but the fact is, any part in a residential structure can be purchased for nearly the same price by the HO as what we as contractors pay.


It seems the only way to get decent pricing now days on those type of parts is to buy in extremely large bulk orders; and sometimes even then you can't get much of a break.

I was working with an EC friend awhile back on a residential project and priced out 100k feet of romex. If I remember correctly, the price was about $1000 less for the entire order vs. paying regular price @ HD or lowe's.

 

[bradleyelectric]

Funny thing is the quotes that he got I'm sure didn't include troubleshooting time. The time he gave didn't include troubleshooting or drive time. It's like the fact that you have to get there and figure out what the problem is doesn't count. There is no value in it in this example.

He may have called everyone in the phone book twice and the next day the guy with the $300 quote called back and told him he would do what was already done for $300 and Lowes told him they could set the cheapest toilet in the store for $220, than hit him with extras when they get there.

The "I could have done what you already had done for half that" is pretty meaningless.

 

[GUNNING]

Tickets to the egress on sale here!

Tickets to the egress on sale here!

My supply house used to buy there wire FROM HD and sell it to me wholesale.... My OLD supply house that is.

 

[ohm]

I already know how this is going to turn out but here goes anyway.

IMO AARP can be pretty far left but they represent people on fixed incomes that can be as low as $840 but no more than about $2000/mo.

Does it seem fair to charge someone making $11.54/hr your fee of
$533.33/hr?

Bear in mind that $840 is 42% of their total income and could mean the difference between hamburger and dog food for the rest of the month.

OK let's hear all about overhead etc.etc. but remember we're all going to be in their shoes sooner or later and possibly totally helpless.

 

[gadfly56]

I know that in New Jersey, a plumber can easily charge $90-$120 per hour. The truck charge, which doesn't count toward any work actually done, is in the neighborhood of $80. Say, $45 for parts. You may have a minimum charge of 2-4 hours, depending if it's a scheduled or emergency call. So, you might be looking at $305-$605 for this work. I've got a rate schedule from Benjamin Franklin, "The punctual plumber", and the scheduled service minimum charge is $72. They have 5 service levels, all fixed price. Standard toilet rebuild would be $339. Then there is the $7 fuel surcharge and $8.69 environmental fee. Total less tax is $426.69.

On customer supplied parts, I have an interesting personal story. When we remodeled our last kitchen, the GC said we were specifically responsible for supplying the kitchen sink, fixtures, and electrical fixtures. We had all the parts in a pile in the dining room when work started. In fact, I was charged extra for the concealed lighting the electrician showed on his fixture plan but I didn't supply. I had thought that the fixtures were included in his price to the GC. It was a nice upsell for the electrician, and I was a little miffed at the miscommunication. On the other hand, it was only a few hundred for a half dozen fixtures, they looked nice, and gave the kitchen an upscale look. I didn't grumble much. All that said, if I have a special need for some equipment I'll let the installer know and he can pick it up. If anything goes south, I don't have to argue if it's workmanship or owner supplied equipment to blame.

I empathize with folks on fixed incomes, as I hope some day to be among their ranks. However, that's not an excuse to stiff the guy who's trying to make a living, and I don't mean the folks targeting senior citizens with little more that a scam. Social Security was never intended to be anyone's only means of support in their old age. People who took a vacation to Europe every few years instead of planning their retirement shouldn't get much sympathy.

 

[bradleyelectric]

I already know how this is going to turn out but here goes anyway.

IMO AARP can be pretty far left but they represent people on fixed incomes that can be as low as $840 but no more than about $2000/mo.

Does it seem fair to charge someone making $11.54/hr your fee of
$533.33/hr?

Bear in mind that $840 is 42% of their total income and could mean the difference between hamburger and dog food for the rest of the month.

OK let's hear all about overhead etc.etc. but remember we're all going to be in their shoes sooner or later and possibly totally helpless.

I never knew you weren't allowed to be a member of AARP if you made more than $2000/mo. Where does this information come from? How did you arrive at the price of $533.33/hr?

I hope to be making more than $2000/mo. when I'm 55. Will this preclude me from AARP?

 

[brian john]

Brian, in all fairness, You posted you Weekend Service Rates...

Some are in the correct Rol-o-dex, some are still pondering, why not me!

I did not quote any prices, I was asking what is the fair price.

Assuming an emergency call I get a minimum 4 hours.

I just returned from a 2nd emergency call customer could not get a bolted pressure switch closed. I ask again if I have the parts and you have no power or in the plumbers case no water or too much water. What is it worth?

We do not know if the plumber was on ST or OT additionally in our area some EC's charge OT for emergency calls during normal hours.

 

[PetrosA]

disclosure...

disclosure...

I've seen a lot of comments in this thread and others about service call charges, emergency service call charges etc. But the case here (IMHO) isn't so much about the numbers, but about the shock the customer actually got from the price after the fact. Any decent business person should be aware that some customers live on a very limited budget and need to be made aware BEFORE THE WORK STARTS that "getting the toilet fixed" is going to cost almost $900. That would put me out of (practically) 2 weeks pay, and I sure as heck would need to know beforehand. If the service person couldn't ballpark it for me, I would call the office and get a number from them. My customers do that when I go on calls and I consider it perfectly reasonable.

I'm also going to guess that most of us here can only try to imagine being that customer since I'm sure most of us do the majority of our own servicing at home, even the plumbing stuff

 

[bradleyelectric]

I've seen a lot of comments in this thread and others about service call charges, emergency service call charges etc. But the case here (IMHO) isn't so much about the numbers, but about the shock the customer actually got from the price after the fact. Any decent business person should be aware that some customers live on a very limited budget and need to be made aware BEFORE THE WORK STARTS that "getting the toilet fixed" is going to cost almost $900. That would put me out of (practically) 2 weeks pay, and I sure as heck would need to know beforehand. If the service person couldn't ballpark it for me, I would call the office and get a number from them. My customers do that when I go on calls and I consider it perfectly reasonable.

I'm also going to guess that most of us here can only try to imagine being that customer since I'm sure most of us do the majority of our own servicing at home, even the plumbing stuff

Did you read the original post or not understand it? I believe it says right in it they agreed on a price before the toilet was rebuilt. What budget does the customer in the post live on? Do they live in a 3 million dollar house? Is the cost of living the same in Lancaster, PA as it is in Patchogue, NY?

 

[Sparky555]

This story is typical of a contractor ripoff story from one side. Consider how different it would read if it were a Sat. evening call. The customer had a huge party the next day with guests already arriving. There are 100 plumbers in the phone book. 90 of 100 don't answer the phone on the weekends. Ten answer the phone but only two can send a service truck now with the needed parts. What's it worth for the stellar service? Maybe it's a $300 job for the 90 that didn't answer the phone Sat. evening and who could fix it Monday afternoon after the party.

IMO what is disturbing about this story is two adults agreeing to a contract which is completed, one party complaining, not to a judge in court, but to AARP. Then AARP and Discover negate a contract between two adults without a judge or court.

 

[LarryFine]

IMO what is disturbing about this story is two adults agreeing to a contract which is completed, one party complaining, not to a judge in court, but to AARP. Then AARP and Discover negate a contract between two adults without a judge or court.

The OP never said that the plumber had to return the $600; only that Discover credited the customer.

 

[Sparky555]

The OP never said that the plumber had to return the $600; only that Discover credited the customer.

Good call Larry. I assumed that the credit and debit went together, as usual.