Aarp

[PetrosA]

Did you read the original post or not understand it? I believe it says right in it they agreed on a price before the toilet was rebuilt. What budget does the customer in the post live on? Do they live in a 3 million dollar house? Is the cost of living the same in Lancaster, PA as it is in Patchogue, NY?

I did miss that, my bad.

Since I never even heard of Patchogue or even know how to pronounce it, I can't say how expensive it is to live there. I'm not debating the quoted price, as I admitted, I misread the OP.

That I misread the OP means that my comment was not on target, and as far as the resolution with Discover, I would agree that the customer should not have gotten his money back if the price was quoted beforehand. I don't subscribe to the idea that "the customer is always right." Disclosure (the title of my last post) gives the customer the option of getting a second opinion and price. This guy didn't use that option. His mistake...

And yes, I can relate to customers having or not having the budget to fix stuff. I've done two well pump service calls in the last six months - one in a 12,000 sq.ft house that ended up costing $14,000 to fix (lawn sprinkler/backup pump), another in a 7,000 sq.ft. house that cost $300 to fix :grin:

 

[jmsbrush]

I'm interested in the other side of this story:

Did the customer call from a full-page phone book ad?
Did a live operator answer the call?
Did the company respond to the call within an hour?
Was the service after hours or a holiday?
Did the company stock every brand of toilet parts on a large service van?
...as well as every brand of faucet part, shower part so the repair could be completed without travel to a supplier?
The company accepted credit cards.
Was the tech so well trained and experienced that it took 90 minutes when it could have taken longer?

A new toilet installed for $220...the materials can be over $220.

Does AARP think you should pay more than retail for a drink at any restaurant?

You hit the nail on the head on those questions!!:smile:
Just out of curiosity, how many folks here have had to change out a 200A main breaker on a Saturday?
How many guys here only run a residential service department?
Do you guys have in your vans a 200amp main breaker for all the common brands? A 150A?
Do you have them in all of your vans? This gets expensive.
On a Saturday evening at 9:15 there are no supply houses open and no Home Depots.
I know if you look in the phone book there will only be a couple if your lucky who can handle this call. At least in my area.
It all comes down to knowing your cost.
If your tec is making $50,000 a year on average and you have to send him on an overtime service call he has to be paid and so does the company.
The average person is trying to figure the price of the service compared to what he makes an hour.
He has no clue or nor would he care how much it cost the contractor to provide the service he does, everyday, 7 days a week.

The price was agreed upon. How many calls did he make until he finaly got the guy who did fix his problem??

Its amazing!!! Where were all low ballers at, when the customer needed them????

 

[PetrosA]

You hit the nail on the head on those questions!!:smile:
Just out of curiosity, how many folks here have had to change out a 200A main breaker on a Saturday?
How many guys here only run a residential service department?
Do you guys have in your vans a 200amp main breaker for all the common brands? A 150A?
Do you have them in all of your vans? This gets expensive.
On a Saturday evening at 9:15 there are no supply houses open and no Home Depots.
I know if you look in the phone book there will only be a couple if your lucky who can handle this call. At least in my area.
It all comes down to knowing your cost.
If your tec is making $50,000 a year on average and you have to send him on an overtime service call he has to be paid and so does the company.
The average person is trying to figure the price of the service compared to what he makes an hour.
He has no clue or nor would he care how much it cost the contractor to provide the service he does, everyday, 7 days a week.

The price was agreed upon. How many calls did he make until he finaly got the guy who did fix his problem??

Its amazing!!! Where were all low ballers at, when the customer needed them????

Hehe, so little creativity :grin: In my experience, these calls come just as easily at 3 PM on a Friday as they do on a Saturday, and at the end of a 35 hour week, you can bet I'm not staying till 7 PM to fix it. Most of us probably have bugs, some 1/0 and a 2 pole 100A or 150A BR that will serve just fine till Monday morning... unless you see an 80A or 90A breaker for the heater

 

[R Bob]

The OP never said that the plumber had to return the $600; only that Discover credited the customer.

Anybody know how the credit card company mediates a situation like this?
Does the merchant/service provider have any recourse?

The one and only experience I've ever had with a CC co. was for an item I paid for, but never received. The merchant wouldn't cooperate to my satisfaction. VISA investigated and credited my account. My situation was pretty much cut and dry.

I'm sure the process is very different for a service that has already been performed.

 

[growler]

OK let's hear all about overhead etc.etc. but remember we're all going to be in their shoes sooner or later and possibly totally helpless.

I could have become an AARP member five years ago. They don't require that you be old and senile just 50 years of age or more.

They didn't give out the age of the customer or financial standing so it could easily have been a 51 year old New York Lawyer making $500K a year that was willing to pay for an emergency service call on a Holiday.

The way writers like to play the sympathy angle I think if this were a 78 year old senile woman they would have mentioned it. If she were living on a fixed income I think they would have thrown that in there. When writing up a story they normally add all information that would make the story more shocking and leave out everything that would take away from the shock value ( such as customer income or age).


Let us not start stacking up the wood to burn the witch before getting a few more facts. This really sounds like a story trying to promote AARP membership. Look what we can do for you, no more paying the high cost of plumbers.

If the fine folks at AARP have a list of suggested plumbers and rates they should send it out to the members. Or they coud start an AARP plumbing service and provide cheap low cost service to their members ( that would surely boost membership). If they can find a way to provide me with cheap mechanic rates I may join. If I become a member and complain about the price of auto service will they intercede on my behalf? I would love to have a few of my bills lowered. :smile::smile:

 

[ohm]

I never knew you weren't allowed to be a member of AARP if you made more than $2000/mo. Where does this information come from? How did you arrive at the price of $533.33/hr?

I hope to be making more than $2000/mo. when I'm 55. Will this preclude me from AARP?

You can be a member of AARP (I'm no big fan) for about $13/yr if your at least 55.

Take $840 deduct $40 for parts divide the balance by 1.5 and you get $533.33, not to mention overhead, which I did.

I too hope to be making more than $2000/mo. but you won't do it on welfare, unemployment or SS and I'm told that includes quite a few people right about now.

I and quite a few other people view an $800 charge for 1.5 hrs work by a relatively unskilled person using only a pair of channellocks a bit high.

A guy changing your tire by the interstate wouldn't get away with it and he's risking his life, using bigger, better equipment and more skill than our plumber friend.

If word of this plumbers ethics ever got out around here he would be out of business in short order. Maurice

 

[iwire]

I don't see any issue at all, the customer was not forced to say yes nor where they confronted by surprise with a large bill at the end of the job.

Old or young, people need to be responsible for their own decisions.

Me, I would have told the guy no, but if I did say yes I would pay the bill.

 

[jmsbrush]

You can be a member of AARP (I'm no big fan) for about $13/yr if your at least 55.

Take $840 deduct $40 for parts divide the balance by 1.5 and you get $533.33, not to mention overhead, which I did.

I too hope to be making more than $2000/mo. but you won't do it on welfare, unemployment or SS and I'm told that includes quite a few people right about now.

I and quite a few other people view an $800 charge for 1.5 hrs work by a relatively unskilled person using only a pair of channellocks a bit high.

A guy changing your tire by the interstate wouldn't get away with it and he's risking his life, using bigger, better equipment and more skill than our plumber friend.

If word of this plumbers ethics ever got out around here he would be out of business in short order. Maurice

Ohm, no disrespect.You are only reading one side of the story. There are so many factors that have not been mentioned.
The guy had no problem paying for what he needed fixed at the time.
Why is that? How many contractors did he call before he got one to come to his house?
Was this after hours?
Was it on a holiday?
Where were all those lowballers nay-sayers at, when the customer needed them?
Maybe it was 1:00 on a Monday afternoon and he did call a few plumbers but they were all to busy to come.

For our company to change out a standard 200A main after hours, the
price would be $547.00. Doesn't matter how old, how young, how much your house cost. Its an up front price for the service, take it or leave it.
Our company knows what it needs to charge to survive. We run on 15 to 20% profit.
We compete against guys who charge $40 an hour so there price for the same job might be $280
Does that mean we are price gougers?

 

[jmsbrush]

This also applies http://journals2.iranscience.net:80...tures/BNP__Features__Item/0,2379,5091,00.html

 

[bradleyelectric]

You can be a member of AARP (I'm no big fan) for about $13/yr if your at least 55.

Take $840 deduct $40 for parts divide the balance by 1.5 and you get $533.33, not to mention overhead, which I did.

I too hope to be making more than $2000/mo. but you won't do it on welfare, unemployment or SS and I'm told that includes quite a few people right about now.

I and quite a few other people view an $800 charge for 1.5 hrs work by a relatively unskilled person using only a pair of channellocks a bit high.

A guy changing your tire by the interstate wouldn't get away with it and he's risking his life, using bigger, better equipment and more skill than our plumber friend.

If word of this plumbers ethics ever got out around here he would be out of business in short order. Maurice

How long did he take to get the parts? They didn't magically appear. How about time to drive to the job? There was time involved to assess the job. In reality this job took 4 hours. It probably took 90 minutes from the time the tech was in the bathroom with the tools and materials to rebuild the toilet, but all told there was 4 hours involved. The fact that some fool would stand on the side of the road and change your tire for less is irrelevant. Would you consider all trades people unskilled or does this just pertain to you?

The fact the plumber wishes to actually run a profitable business has nothing to do with ethics.

 

[brian john]

If word of this plumbers ethics ever got out around here he would be out of business in short order. Maurice

And what if these charges prove to be a legit cost with the lowballers being disgruntled ex employees or slackers/hacks/trunk slammers?

You would not even consider the fact that he might have a good argument for FULL PAYMENT?

56 and I refuse to be a AARP member.

 

[ohm]

And what if these charges prove to be a legit cost with the lowballers being disgruntled ex employees or slackers/hacks/trunk slammers?

You would not even consider the fact that he might have a good argument for FULL PAYMENT?

56 and I refuse to be a AARP member.

You guys are right I don't know all the facts and we probably never will.

I just have a bad feeling about what I do know.

All we can do is what we must do.

 

[bradleyelectric]

This thread shows the basic problem with perception that electrical contractors are professionals worthy of making a living in line with other business owners. There is a large problem convincing people that claim to be electrical contractors of that fact.

 

[bradleyelectric]

You guys are right I don't know all the facts and we probably never will.

I just have a bad feeling about what I do know.

All we can do is what we must do.

How much would it cost for you to go to someone's house that is 30 minutes drive 1 way on a Sunday morning to fix a problem that is causing damage to the house and needs to be fixed immediately, will take 90 minutes to correct from the time the problem is assessed and agreed to, and will require $50 in materials your cost? What would the invoice to the customer be?

 

[peter d]

Some of AARP's recommendations:

Agree to an hourly rate not a fixed price!
Pay no more than retail for the parts or purchase them yourself!

I always try to read the comics on Sunday. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[peter d]

I don't put much stock and trade in organizations with a socialist agenda anyway. This is much ado about nothing.

 

[growler]

I too hope to be making more than $2000/mo. but you won't do it on welfare, unemployment or SS and I'm told that includes quite a few people right about now.

I and quite a few other people view an $800 charge for 1.5 hrs work by a relatively unskilled person using only a pair of channellocks a bit high.

If word of this plumbers ethics ever got out around here he would be out of business in short order. Maurice

I doubt if the person in question is living on unemployment, welfare or SS. When I looked up the median income for Patchougue, NY it over 60K a year and the average cost of a home is $336K. Unless there is a pretty high class of poor people living there it sounds like a pretty high rent area.
( compared to many areas of the country).

As the cost of living goes up in any area so does the cost for services. If he was in Birmingham the cost would probably be less than half. If they had use $400 instead of $800 it wouldn't sound near as bad to most people.

If he was a union plumber working out of a New York City local on a Holiday what would the company have to pay to get him out on a service call. Maybe 4 hours minimum at tripple time.

 

[brian john]

With no parts in Washington DC this call would be minimum $600.00 OT and $440.00 ST.

But as noted by many, flat rate pricing is generally a more profitable income producer and hourly has nothing to do with it.

For example when we test a GFP in and out under 4 hours, with paper work flat rate $1,280.00.

Most of us have a point where we think some one is charging a bit too much, is this a case of that?

 

[norcal]

While I personally think the price is way out of line, the customer did agree to the quoted price ahead of time, so IMO no refund is due. A W.C. will flush w/ a bucket of water so they did have a chance to shop around it's not like where a water heater is leaking all over the floor or some other problem that needs to be addressed ASAP.

 

[brian john]

And lastly is this a low water needs to be flush 3 times for the business at hand toilets that cost upwards of 300-500 dollars, parts could be expensive? Maybe this woman was one of those that warranted an extra few dollars because she was a PIA customer. Maybe this plumber has a list a mile long against him at the BBB. Could be the BWM payment was due?

To many unknowns for us to make a serious call.

But everyone in business has had to have at least one or two complainers about the invoice after the fact.