abandoning the general use of 120 vac wiring throughout residences

[wyreman]

Domatic

www.domatic.io

i had been thinking that electricity use is much different since i was a kid and I Love Lucy when ricky bought her a washing machine.
I believe that power is really only needed at special locations such as LAU SA1&2, and IA's and the rest could be class2,

electrical load shape is mostly lighting and HVAC plus now EV is coming up

i had been thinking that electricity use is much different since i was a kid and I Love Lucy when ricky bought her a washing machine.

thats why k&t installs dont make layout

I believe that power is really only needed at special locations such as LAU SA1&2, and IA's and the rest could be class2,
what do you think




View attachment 2561129

 

[wyreman]

one objection i see right away is that high voltage is the cat with the 9 league boots and that 50vdc wont travel very well

any voltage dc is still a sparkable fire hazard
higher voltage dc is a real electrocution hazard. I am real leery around the 500v dc buss while only "leery" around the 480vac despite all the arc flash training. Yes I do wear a blast suit and helmet

 

[retirede]

There was a thread about this last year in the low voltage section. The guy who proposed it got pretty well panned!

 

[wyreman]

There was a thread about this last year in the low voltage section. The guy who proposed it got pretty well panned!

i bet! nobody wants to hear that .. especially everybody busy as they wanna be

 

[jim dungar]

Wow the OP link completely ignores all of the portable devices and large appliances that are part of every day life.

 

[petersonra]

About the only thing that makes sense for class 2 circuits is lighting. The power requirements for everything else just makes it impractical.

I don't think I would have a huge problem with people putting in class 2 circuits for general lighting but then you need additional infrastructure in the form of power supplies and some means to distribute it. I am not sure you would gain anything on a net basis.

 

[GoldDigger]

About the only thing that makes sense for class 2 circuits is lighting. The power requirements for everything else just makes it impractical.

I don't think I would have a huge problem with people putting in class 2 circuits for general lighting but then you need additional infrastructure in the form of power supplies and some means to distribute it. I am not sure you would gain anything on a net basis.

Especially while the market is still rapidly changing and getting either parts or replacement units a few years down the line is uncertain!

 

[tom baker]

Especially while the market is still rapidly changing and getting either parts or replacement units a few years down the line is uncertain!

Exactly. We frequently see posts about some LV lighting system with relays that does not work and there are no parts for

 

[tom baker]

one objection i see right away is that high voltage is the cat with the 9 league boots and that 50vdc wont travel very well

any voltage dc is still a sparkable fire hazard
higher voltage dc is a real electrocution hazard. I am real leery around the 500v dc buss while only "leery" around the 480vac despite all the arc flash training. Yes I do wear a blast suit and helmet

What about class 4 lv, digital electricity, in a new article in the 2023 NEC?

 

[zbang]

i bet! nobody wants to hear that ..

Mostly, IIRC nobody wanted to hear badly-developed ideas.

Heck, if we were going to change residential power distribution at all, make 240v the norm- many of the same arguments for low-voltage DC still apply with the add-in that wire sizes get smaller. And, all of the distribution hardware already exists! Only downside is the installed base of 120v equipment. (I am not advocating this.)

 

[retirede]

Heck, while we’re at it, just make everything wireless!

 

[wyreman]

Especially while the market is still rapidly changing and getting either parts or replacement units a few years down the line is uncertain!

didnt squared have something like with those smart breakers in the white enclosures

 

[wyreman]

alot of rooms have just lights, iphones and a laptop, so this is what they are planning for the future
you will own nothing and be happy!

but to get your goldfish pump specially from the dc supplier
and have no way to move a space heater or use any of the existing 120v machines anywhere without special planning
mostly you would have to buy everything new from the new supplier and all that history would be rewritten

 

[Besoeker3]

Mostly, IIRC nobody wanted to hear badly-developed ideas.

Heck, if we were going to change residential power distribution at all, make 240v the norm- many of the same arguments for low-voltage DC still apply with the add-in that wire sizes get smaller. And, all of the distribution hardware already exists! Only downside is the installed base of 120v equipment. (I am not advocating this.)

I'm from UK. Domestic residences are all 230V Hz. No 120V nor 240V. No 120-0-120. Just simpler. Why would you need to have heating and lighting at the same voltage?

 

[zbang]

Blame Edison . Follow that by throwing a few rocks at "installed base" and the difficulty, even 100 years ago, of changing things. Oh, and the idea that higher-voltage (220, and the time) was more dangerous than 110.

(230 vs 240? Hardly a difference, there.)

I'll mention that the Los Angeles area was 50Hz up to 1948, and even then the effort to convert to 60 was massive.

 

[macmikeman]

Anybody remember that tape that you could apply to a wall to wire switches and lights in places that were hard to get wiring to? I don't think that stuff is even around anymore......

 

[wyreman]

Anybody remember that tape that you could apply to a wall to wire switches and lights in places that were hard to get wiring to? I don't think that stuff is even around anymore......

ahhahhahaha

 

[GoldDigger]

Out here in Silicon Valley, people are not impressed by God creating the universe in only 6 days.
After all, He did not have an installed base to deal with.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[cvillej17]

What about class 4 lv, digital electricity, in a new article in the 2023 NEC?

Fascinating question. Seems like most folks here don't know much about it, nor, outside of a few like yourself, are they bold enough to ask.

I'm sure you're aware the Sinclair Hotel in Ft. Worth and Hotel Marcel in New Haven both use DE/fiber as the infrastructure behind the PoE edge switches and end devices and lighting throughout (even solid state PoE refrigerators). Same with Westfield Public Schools in NJ. Safe, centralized DC microgrids are available today on any scale using their tech, and DE receivers are available in various voltages, but it isn't their main focus. Could a home be designed to run on DE today? Yes, but I don't see widespread residential market adoption for quite some time, especially since retrofitting is not cost-effective. I don't think the people at VoltServer are going to change their go-to-market anytime soon since they're keeping plenty busy supporting commercial applications like DAS, the 4G to 5G transition, small cell, indoor agriculture, mass transit, and the aforementioned PoE design.

 

[MD Automation]

I'll mention that the Los Angeles area was 50Hz up to 1948, and even then the effort to convert to 60 was massive.

Fascinating! I had no idea. Blame it on my East Coast upbringing.

A few clicks around the interwebs gets you this picture...

It's a store (presumably circa 1945-48) where you brought your clock(s) to get them exchanged, or I guess re-geared, to work on the newfangled 60 Hz electricity. If you did not do this, you were always doomed to be early for your next dentist appointment.

They had the same exchanges for lights (don't understand that one, maybe fluorescent?) and refridgerators! What a cumbersome task it would have been to bring your fridge to a place like this to get the motor/compressor swapped out.

Yes - what a nightmare that whole thing must have been for the utilty and it's customers both. Took ~ 3 years, started in '45.

This is a nice short writeup I found...

Before 1948, LA's Power Grid Was Incompatible With the Rest of the US

Before 1948, there was something funny about the Southland's electricity. Plug in a clock from New York and it would lose 10 minutes every hour. Spin a

gizmodo.com