AC cable and switch box embedded in foundation

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tonype

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Switch box connections not accessible is more of a problem than the fact the cables are embedded - am I correct? Cables start at the top of the wall.
 

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I don't see an issue with the switch box. it looks like you can get at the connections just by removing the cover plate. the stub out is kind of peculiar though.

is that NM? If so it can't be embedded but if there is a void it can be fished down to the box.
 
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tonype said:
Switch box connections not accessible is more of a problem than the fact the cables are embedded - am I correct? Cables start at the top of the wall.
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I agree with Bob, the interior of the switchboxes looks like it would be accessible by unscrewing the coverplate and the switches.

The cable connectors that attach the AC cable to the boxes is not required to be accessible and can be embedded in plaster.

This looks like the initial installation occurred when the wall surface was on firring strips.

The real question, to me, from only seeing this photo, is: Is the masonry wall below, or above, grade? If it is below grade, and the cable is, in fact, type AC, then it is exposed, I would argue, to a damp location and is prohibited from having been installed there.
 
AC cable can be embedded as shown in the photo. Not a problem.

II. Installation320.10 Uses Permitted. Type AC cable shall be permittedas follows:
(1) For feeders and branch circuits in both exposed andconcealed installations
(2) In cable trays
(3) In dry locations
(4) Embedded in plaster finish on brick or other masonry,except in damp or wet locations
(5) To be run or fished in the air voids of masonry block ortile walls where such walls are not exposed or subjectto excessive moisture or dampness
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al hildenbrand said:
The real question, to me, from only seeing this photo, is: Is the masonry wall below, or above, grade? If it is below grade, and the cable is, in fact, type AC, then it is exposed, I would argue, to a damp location and is prohibited from having been installed there.
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Grade line is above the box - maybe a foot or so.
 
tonype said:
Grade line is above the box - maybe a foot or so.
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There is a long history of using type AC in my work area of 3 million souls. I have had to change wiring methods to something other than AC in the situation you are describing.
 
petersonra said:
I don't see how being below grade makes it damp. It appears to be a finished space to me which pretty much precludes it being "damp".
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It used to be easier to understand what the Article on Armored Cable (AC) was saying was a dry location with respect to uses permitted for AC.

I just checked my copies of the '81, '84 and '87 NEC and the "Uses Permitted" included the phrase "or are below grade line" as an area where only a special form of AC, type ACL (that has a continuous lead sheath, instead of paper) was allowed. Back then AC was in Article 333.
 
al hildenbrand said:
It used to be easier to understand what the Article on Armored Cable (AC) was saying was a dry location with respect to uses permitted for AC.

I just checked my copies of the '81, '84 and '87 NEC and the "Uses Permitted" included the phrase "or are below grade line" as an area where only a special form of AC, type ACL (that has a continuous lead sheath, instead of paper) was allowed. Back then AC was in Article 333.
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since that requirement appears to have been removed why would it matter any?
 
Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and
not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but
subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such
locations include partially protected locations under canopies,
marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations,
and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture,
such as some basements, some barns, and some coldstorage
warehouses.
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Location, Wet. Installations underground or in concrete
slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations
subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such
as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed
to weather.
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unless there is no waterproofing on the basement walls, I don't see how it qualifies as either a damp or a wet location.
 
petersonra said:
I don't see an issue with the switch box. it looks like you can get at the connections just by removing the cover plate. the stub out is kind of peculiar though.

is that NM? If so it can't be embedded but if there is a void it can be fished down to the box.
Click to expand...

I'd guess someone is gluing drywall on the block hence the 1/2" shims behind the plate.
 
JFletcher said:
I'd guess someone is gluing drywall on the block hence the 1/2" shims behind the plate.
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Someone installed a stucco material over the original foundation walls - walls likely leaked and had surface deterioration. However, rather than removing box and cables, the installer just went over.
 
petersonra said:
since that requirement appears to have been removed why would it matter any?
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If the wiring wasn't installed to the Code of its day, then, there is something else at play. "Today's Code" hasn't got anything to do with it, in my opinion.

Maybe there was no inspection or Local Authority empowered at the time of wiring.
It may not be possible to date the installation to a specific Code.
There may be local ordinance that excepted the Article on AC's requirements.
There simply may have been local practice that "always did it this way."

I don't know.

Here, under the uniform inspection of several different AHJs, there was no exception, and the installation of AC in masonry units, or embedded in plaster, below the grade line, would be called out as never having been a compliant installation.
 
al hildenbrand said:
If the wiring wasn't installed to the Code of its day, then, there is something else at play. "Today's Code" hasn't got anything to do with it, in my opinion.
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I am inclined to agree that the code at the time of the installation is what matters.

However, given the extensive remodeling that appears to have been done it might be that it has to be brought up to code and then the current code would matter, and that provision appears to have been removed.

It does seem odd they would have relaxed the code like that. You don't see that real often.
 
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