Adding exterior lighting to washing machine ckt

[radackj]

Ok here is a head scratcher, well for me any way.
210.11 C (2) Laundry Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of
branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least
one additional 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to
supply the laundry receptacle outlet(s) required by 210.52(F).
This circuit shall have no other outlets. However 210.52(F) exception (1) states that multi- dwelling units laundry doesn’t have to be dedicated. My question is this. We are working in an apartment dwelling with laundry on each floor. We have exterior bollard led lamps (6) of them that need power. One of the guys suggested we pull power from a gfi ckt in the laundry, as it is the closest to the bollard lamps. I didn’t think it was a good idea but the Lead is interpreting the NEC to say because it isn’t a single family dwelling. 210.11 C (2) does not apply about no other outlets or in this case tapping onto an existing ckt for other than laundry use. What say you? Someone help clarify this. I don’t see why an apartment laundry needs to be less protected than s single family dwelling.

 

[infinity]

You should check to see if the laundry machines require an individual branch circuit as part of their listing.

Branch Circuit, Individual. A branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment.

 

[radackj]

You should check to see if the laundry machines require an individual branch circuit as part of their listing.

How do I go about doing that? Sorry for my ignorance.

 

[radackj]

How do I go about doing that? Sorry for my ignorance.

I assume it’s a matter of looking at the manufacturer info for this particular machine and looking at wattage, but what is the cutoff generally speaking for a dedicated branch circuit?

 

[Fred B]

That code allowance is if the Multifamily dwelling has common laundries for the multiple units. It could be one on each floor with multiple units. But if each unit has it's own laundry then it is not meeting the exception criteria. Also usually the multifamily will have a "house panel" and the laundry(s) associated with the house panel.

 

[kwired]

My take: 210.52 is titled Dwelling unit receptacle outlets.

If this is a receptacle outlet in an individual dwelling 210.52 applies to it.

If this is a receptacle not in an individual dwelling unit 210.52 does not apply to it.

A common laundry area in multifamily dwelling is not covered by 210.52.

May or may not be good idea to put other loads on the receptacle(s) in such common laundry area, but not a code violation either.

 

[synchro]

Aside from any code considerations, there have been multiple instances on this forum where led lights have flickered when a washer was agitating its wash load. I'd think that putting lights on the washer's branch circuit would only make such flickering more likely to happen.

 

[kwired]

Aside from any code considerations, there have been multiple instances on this forum where led lights have flickered when a washer was agitating its wash load. I'd think that putting lights on the washer's branch circuit would only make such flickering more likely to happen.

Yes, many even do that when not on same circuit, but on same circuit is likely to be worse.

 

[mtnelect]

The only style of LED's that have phantom flickering problems, are the candelabra base styles. I wonder if the compact size of the base left little room for good filtering ?

 

[radackj]

That code allowance is if the Multifamily dwelling has common laundries for the multiple units. It could be one on each floor with multiple units. But if each unit has it's own laundry then it is not meeting the exception criteria. Also usually the multifamily will have a "house panel" and the laundry(s) associated with the house panel.

Yes it is a common laundry per floor.

 

[Another C10]

One of the guys suggested we pull power from a gfi ckt in the laundry, as it is the closest to the bollard lamps. I didn’t think it was a good idea but the Lead is interpreting the NEC to say because it isn’t a single family dwelling. 210.11 C (2) does not apply about no other outlets or in this case tapping onto an existing ckt for other than laundry use. What say you? Someone help clarify this. I don’t see why an apartment laundry needs to be less protected than s single family dwelling.

I'm pretty sure an apartment, condo, bungalow or hut constitutes as a dwelling, Ive always understood a family dwelling was were we sleep.

As far as tapping off the "Community" washing machines ? that would be a house panel, so no issue there. probably not code but still not a big problem other than poor design, the LED bollards would probably pulse during a wash or spin cycle.

 

[GoldDigger]

That code allowance is if the Multifamily dwelling has common laundries for the multiple units. It could be one on each floor with multiple units. But if each unit has it's own laundry then it is not meeting the exception criteria. Also usually the multifamily will have a "house panel" and the laundry(s) associated with the house panel.

And one way or another the bollard lights, being in a common area, should be fed from the house panel.

 

[infinity]

How do I go about doing that? Sorry for my ignorance.

I assume it’s a matter of looking at the manufacturer info for this particular machine and looking at wattage, but what is the cutoff generally speaking for a dedicated branch circuit?

It's possible that some commercial style machines used for laundry areas in apartment buildings would require an individual branch circuit for each machine.

 

[kwired]

It's possible that some commercial style machines used for laundry areas in apartment buildings would require an individual branch circuit for each machine.

It is also likely they say that in instructions whether truly necessary or not, even non commercial units might say that.

 

[infinity]

It is also likely they say that in instructions whether truly necessary or not, even non commercial units might say that.

Yes that was my thought as well. If the instructions that are part of the listing require an individual branch circuit then you cannot add the lighting to that circuit.

 

[wwhitney]

Yes that was my thought as well. If the instructions that are part of the listing require an individual branch circuit then you cannot add the lighting to that circuit.

Sure, but you could intercept the branch circuit and add OCPD, so that the washer is still on an individual branch circuit.

Does a "Bussmann type T fuse" count as branch circuit OCPD? I'm not familiar with fuses and whether there are different categories, like for circuit breakers (UL 489 vs UL 1077 supplementary protectors). If it does, then just putting a Bussmann SSU or the like next to the washer receptacle would be enough to provide a (very short) individual branch circuit for the washer.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[kwired]

Sure, but you could intercept the branch circuit and add OCPD, so that the washer is still on an individual branch circuit.

Does a "Bussmann type T fuse" count as branch circuit OCPD? I'm not familiar with fuses and whether there are different categories, like for circuit breakers (UL 489 vs UL 1077 supplementary protectors). If it does, then just putting a Bussmann SSU or the like next to the washer receptacle would be enough to provide a (very short) individual branch circuit for the washer.

Cheers, Wayne

I think you must consider the fuseholder/switch that is associated with it. Something like a box cover unit that accepts plug fuses I'm pretty certain isn't considered/rated as a branch circuit device, but in a panelboard with plug fuse holders generally it is considered branch circuit device.

 

[wwhitney]

I think you must consider the fuseholder/switch that is associated with it. Something like a box cover unit that accepts plug fuses I'm pretty certain isn't considered/rated as a branch circuit device

Reference? How is Busmann SSU different from a fused disconnect, regulatorily?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[kwired]

Reference? How is Busmann SSU different from a fused disconnect, regulatorily?

Cheers, Wayne

I'd say it comes to listing, I don't believe they are listed as branch circuit devices, a fused disconnect generally is.

Been trying to find code that says branch circuit devices must be listed as branch circuit devices, pretty certain there is section that says that, but it is evading me right now. Been looking mostly in 210 and 240 so far.

 

[suemarkp]

Doesnt the laundry room have lighting? Why not extend that circuit to the outside light?