Additional Ground Rod

epelectric33

Member
Location
SD
Occupation
Electrical Consulting/Inspection/Master
If the CE electrode was properly installed and inspected the NEC does not require the ground rod. I would not humor him and install one just on principle. We have a big problem in this country (and getting worse by the day) with incompetent inspectors (and trades people in general) and I'm not inclined to bolster their incompetence by adhering to things they just make up.
NEC 250.53 (A)(2) Exception gives you the out if you can test and prove less than 25 ohms resistance to earth. However 90.4 gives the AHJ permission to add or delete or not accept the NEC. The AHJ (Inspector) has the last say and there could be a local code that requires the extra ground rod. I would simply ask why he is requiring this and discuss with him NEC 250.53 (A)(2) exception (be ready to be able to test the current grounding electrode system to be able to prove the less than 25 ohms to earth), but if he requires it I would suggest just installing it as it will not hurt and will save you pain and suffering in the future. Now don't get me wrong if there is an inspector that is requiring something other than what the NEC says (which NEC is just the minimum requirements) that is a danger or that is below the minimum requirements of the NEC then I would say that is a worthy fight. IMO
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
However 90.4 gives the AHJ permission to add or delete or not accept the NEC. The AHJ (Inspector) has the last say . . .
However, the AHJ is rarely the person who inspects your job, but is usually has a supervisor and/or a group with a top person.

If you strongly disagree with a properly-presented ruling, you should be able to appeal to someone higher on the food chain.
 

epelectric33

Member
Location
SD
Occupation
Electrical Consulting/Inspection/Master
However, the AHJ is rarely the person who inspects your job, but is usually has a supervisor and/or a group with a top person.

If you strongly disagree with a properly-presented ruling, you should be able to appeal to someone higher on the food chain.
Again I agree with you, but be careful are remember that requiring an extra ground rod will not hurt and be ready to prove the original electrode system meets the 25 ohms or less requirement. I have appealed to the Chief Inspector before and won my case, but I was able to prove why it was a HAZZARD to do what the inspector was directing me to do.
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
NEC 250.53 (A)(2) Exception gives you the out if you can test and prove less than 25 ohms resistance to earth. However 90.4 gives the AHJ permission to add or delete or not accept the NEC. The AHJ (Inspector) has the last say and there could be a local code that requires the extra ground rod. I would simply ask why he is requiring this and discuss with him NEC 250.53 (A)(2) exception (be ready to be able to test the current grounding electrode system to be able to prove the less than 25 ohms to earth), but if he requires it I would suggest just installing it as it will not hurt and will save you pain and suffering in the future. Now don't get me wrong if there is an inspector that is requiring something other than what the NEC says (which NEC is just the minimum requirements) that is a danger or that is below the minimum requirements of the NEC then I would say that is a worthy fight. IMO
The code does not require any proof of 25 or less when using a CEE. If the OP has a CEE no ground rods are needed at all. The inspector needs to put on his big boy pants and learn something.
 

epelectric33

Member
Location
SD
Occupation
Electrical Consulting/Inspection/Master
The code does not require any proof of 25 or less when using a CEE. If the OP has a CEE no ground rods are needed at all. The inspector needs to put on his big boy pants and learn something.
Unless there is a local requirement for a ground rod to be installed. I do agree with inspectors need to be more diligent about saying something is wrong verses proving something is wrong.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
The code does not require any proof of 25 or less when using a CEE. If the OP has a CEE no ground rods are needed at all. The inspector needs to put on his big boy pants and learn something.
I agree, and in many places the inspector doesn't get to make his own rules.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Again I agree with you, but be careful are remember that requiring an extra ground rod will not hurt and be ready to prove the original electrode system meets the 25 ohms or less requirement. I have appealed to the Chief Inspector before and won my case, but I was able to prove why it was a HAZZARD to do what the inspector was directing me to do.
So I do a job that is an hour from my shop and the inspector wants me to drive there and back to drive a rod that is not required... To heck with that- I would politely show him where he is wrong and I can make one phone call and get that straightened out if he doesn't budge
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
So I do a job that is an hour from my shop and the inspector wants me to drive there and back to drive a rod that is not required... To heck with that- I would politely show him where he is wrong and I can make one phone call and get that straightened out if he doesn't budge
:cool:
 

nickelec

Senior Member
Location
US
Sorry guys been a bit busy, no cee here in my neck of the woods in NYC cees are are extremely rare unless it's a new construction highrise or a new construction residential building

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Sorry guys been a bit busy, no cee here in my neck of the woods in NYC cees are are extremely rare unless it's a new construction highrise or a new construction residential building
They don't use rebar in the footings on single family and multi-family dwellings?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
In many areas, I thought everywhere, rebar is required in footers but it may depend on your soil composition. I believe it is required where we are in NC
 

epelectric33

Member
Location
SD
Occupation
Electrical Consulting/Inspection/Master
There are many places that even the rebar and installation of the rebar doesn't meet the requirements of being a grounding electrode as well (and how do you prove that the rebar installation is to requirements to be considered a grounding electrode). Also, some of the newer requirements in some areas of places like Oklahoma require "slip pads" for the earth movement (earthquakes) so the pads are isolated from earth which is why different places may require the ground rod as an addition. I am not saying this is the case here due to no knowing all the details, but these are some of the reasons I have ran across in my travels.
 
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