Advice concerning a terminated employee

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Documentation

Not legal advice:

1. sit down and calmly write down every piece of evidence; not rumor

2. pay this guy by legal channels; certified mail: Return, Receipt, Requested

3. include a letter stating your demand for returning items

4. file all this info; you may (will) need it later

5. he's not worth an ulcer; be happy he's gone
 
I have been down this road, not too long ago. Each state's Labor Laws are different, so I can only relate to you what happens here in NY.

1. Pay him his last check.
2. do not have contact with him personnally
3. Contact your lawyer and let your lawyer have all future contact with him.

4. You have two choices after paying him.
4a. You have your lawyer contact him to return all goods, including ladder, phone, and whatever material you deem may have been stolen. He will not be charged if he does so. If he decides to play hardball, your lawyer will know what to do - remember there will be a cost to do this.

4b. After paying him, have your lawyer put a plan together to put this to bed.

Good luck, and hopefully you will now put an "employee handbook" together for the future.

P.S. your other employees are eagerly awaiting to see how your company handles this situation, try to keep that in mind as well.
 
electricguy61 said:
How did you find out he was stealing from you? Can you prove it? (knowing and proving are two different things)
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I think this is the most important comment I have read on this thread. For all the actual facts that we have at our disposal, you could already be liable for a "wrongful discharge lawsuit." He could claim that you made up the story about his stealing from the company, so that you could fire him under false pretenses. You will know the truth, but the jury will only know what they are told. The side with the truth is not always the winner in a lawsuit. In addition, whatever you may believe consists of proof of his stealing, the law might not consider it to be admissable proof, so you might not be allowed to use it to support your side of the lawsuit.

Walk away. Pay him, and walk away. That is my advice.
 
I'ld give him his check, call the police,and hope his next perspective employer calls you to confirm his previous employment history. I believe you would be on shakey legal grounds if you call him a dirty little sneaky thief, so I wouldn't do that. But I , like most others on this forum, consider personal integrity to be an important part of our proffesion, and would have no problem telling a future employer of his that he was let go for lacking the basic skills required to be an entry level electrician.:smile:
 
here is the evidence:

He was in charge of a 3 building shopping center. We were about 90% done with the wiring in the first building and had not even started the second. We ran a cost to complete because we are having some issues with the GC . When we do these things we know how its going to turn out, we are usually ahead on materials or very close ( I mean this is a shopping center shell it is very cut and dry) but the system stated we were done with 2 buildings and 10% into the third. So I went back and looked through all the invoices with wire cost codes and it was right. I went and asked him if he knew of us loosing any wire or what the deal was. He was very cautious and said no it was all there. That was absolutely impossible we are talking about over 20,000' of wire here. i couldn't prove anything so i let it slide and went on recon. over the next week or so I asked around and found out he was in fact doing side work and he had a helper there when he was working for me. when i confronted him with this he denied it and so i fired him plus he had screwed something else up - maybe because he wasn't there all the time. Thats when he told me about the phone ( that he broke it a month ago) I spoke with my lawer and he said I can deduct for the phone but I would have to find out where the material was being used, contact the owner and make the former employee cough up receipts for it.
 
charlie b said:
I think this is the most important comment I have read on this thread. For all the actual facts that we have at our disposal, you could already be liable for a "wrongful discharge lawsuit." He could claim that you made up the story about his stealing from the company, so that you could fire him under false pretenses. You will know the truth, but the jury will only know what they are told. The side with the truth is not always the winner in a lawsuit. In addition, whatever you may believe consists of proof of his stealing, the law might not consider it to be admissable proof, so you might not be allowed to use it to support your side of the lawsuit.

Walk away. Pay him, and walk away. That is my advice.
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WOW I'm glad I don't live there where I have to worry what might happen to me if I want to fire a thief.
 
tyha said:
here is the evidence:

He was in charge of a 3 building shopping center. We were about 90% done with the wiring in the first building and had not even started the second. We ran a cost to complete because we are having some issues with the GC . When we do these things we know how its going to turn out, we are usually ahead on materials or very close ( I mean this is a shopping center shell it is very cut and dry) but the system stated we were done with 2 buildings and 10% into the third. So I went back and looked through all the invoices with wire cost codes and it was right. I went and asked him if he knew of us loosing any wire or what the deal was. He was very cautious and said no it was all there. That was absolutely impossible we are talking about over 20,000' of wire here. i couldn't prove anything so i let it slide and went on recon. over the next week or so I asked around and found out he was in fact doing side work and he had a helper there when he was working for me. when i confronted him with this he denied it and so i fired him plus he had screwed something else up - maybe because he wasn't there all the time. Thats when he told me about the phone ( that he broke it a month ago) I spoke with my lawer and he said I can deduct for the phone but I would have to find out where the material was being used, contact the owner and make the former employee cough up receipts for it.
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Sorry, thats not evidence, people are stealing wire all over the place, who is to say he is the one that stole the wire? You dont have proof, sure it seems fishy, but you are making an assumption.

Walk away from it, pay him (Certified check is a good idea), and turn your focus back on you buiness (And talk to your foreman on the phone every once in a while)
 
stickboy1375 said:
Damn, what kind of side jobs we talking here? I used to do ceiling fans. :roll:
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A LOT of ceiling fans. I heard the car guys giving advice on the radio one time. They told the caller the repair would only cost pennies...













....truck loads of pennies.
 
iaov said:
I'ld give him his check, call the police,and hope his next perspective employer calls you to confirm his previous employment history. I believe you would be on shakey legal grounds if you call him a dirty little sneaky thief, so I wouldn't do that.
But I , like most others on this forum, consider personal integrity to be an important part of our proffesion, and would have no problem telling a future employer of his that he was let go for lacking the basic skills required to be an entry level electrician.:smile:
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That would be a no no . How would YOU then handle the lawsuit if you made this comment to a future employer and the guy showes his elect. license ( if he was licensed). The best way to handle that would be

Future employer: Did John Doe work for you?
You: John worked for me.
F E: Was he a good worker?
You: John worked for me.
F E: Did John know what he was doing?
You: John worked for me.
This way you have not said any thing negative or untruthful about the person that could turn into a defamation lawsuit and hopefully the person on the other end will get the message.
 
If the cost of the material is more than double the cost of getting a lawyer I might consider going after him, but from the way you described your situation I dosent sound like you have any real proof. Im not so sure you can convict someone on "gut feeling". But yea man that really sucks. I hate theives. Ive seen guys take stuff for side jobs and it used to really piss me off even as an employee of the company.
 
ceb58 said:
That would be a no no . How would YOU then handle the lawsuit if you made this comment to a future employer and the guy showes his elect. license ( if he was licensed). The best way to handle that would be

Future employer: Did John Doe work for you?
You: John worked for me.
F E: Was he a good worker?
You: John worked for me.
F E: Did John know what he was doing?
You: John worked for me.
This way you have not said any thing negative or untruthful about the person that could turn into a defamation lawsuit and hopefully the person on the other end will get the message.
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I prefer "would not rehire"
 
bradleyelectric said:
I prefer "would not rehire"
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When providing references to new employers, you can only tell them FACTS, that is pay rate, dates of employement, position held, ect. To make it perfectly clear to the new prospective employer, I would change the above quote to "absolutely would not rehire"... they will get the hint.
 
Sometimes I forget how hard it can be to be politaclly correct. I saw a definition of politically correct recently (might have been this forum) that stated that political correctness is the idea that you can somehow pick up a turd by the clean end!:D
 
The whole schtick:

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
 
most states you cannot deduct anything from an employees check involuntarily unless you get permission from the state DOL. And often breakage is not a legit reason to deduct. In fact, despite the fact that it is a widespread practice, forcing employees to pay for broken or lost items is often not legal.
 
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