AFCI In Bathrooms

[Canton]

No. Who uses the kitchen sink as a toilet, or the toilet to wash dishes in??????

All the same hazards exist with a staple crushing NM cable. The distinction between rooms is more than just a definition, bathroom vs a kitchen.

With that logic I could gut a bathroom but leave all the electric as it was, stick a stripper pole in the middle and call it my Gentleman’s Den…..AFCI protection is required? We need more people like you on the CMPs

 

[augie47]

I agree with that. But the commentary is from the writers which helps to illustrate intent.
And as of recent, I believe Mike Holt has been working with NFPA now to help in these illustrations.

Keep in mind, neither is anything but a piece of paper until adoption by the appropriate authority.
IF and when the NEC is adopted, then that publication, not the Handbook, becomes the enforceable document.

 

[tom baker]

You are correct, but why they did not list the bathrooms as a location.

Over 20 years ago, AFCI was required for bedroom outlets, bed rooms were the most time was spent, and requirements have expanded since then

 

[Little Bill]

Over 20 years ago, AFCI was required for bedroom outlets, bed rooms were the most time was spent, and requirements have expanded since then

But they haven't YET required them in bathrooms. Give them time though!

 

[Steve16]

Only a matter of time until they're required in the bathrooms. Let's not rush things

 

[electrofelon]

That is straight out of the 2020 NEC Handbook. View attachment 2563413

Not sure what you are looking at. Typically the handbook has the exact code then seperate plain english wording. This doesnt look like the typical handbook layout. Can you expand on what exactly you are looking at? What does that triangle mean?

 

[electrofelon]

…..or similar rooms or areas shall be protected.

Seems inclusive enough in the verbiage to require AFCI in bathrooms

I cannot agree with that. I do agree it doesnt make any sense to not require AFCI in bathrooms since they are so benefial and work so well ( ) everywhere else. Curious if there was ever a justification for this.

 

[SSDriver]

Not sure what you are looking at. Typically the handbook has the exact code then seperate plain english wording. This doesnt look like the typical handbook layout. Can you expand on what exactly you are looking at? What does that triangle mean?

My 2020 nec handbook looks the same and it is the NFPA handbook . Wondering if it was ammended or a misprint where they actually changed the text

 

[SSDriver]

Triangle from 2020 nec handbook

 

[Rock86]

Not sure what you are looking at. Typically the handbook has the exact code then seperate plain english wording. This doesnt look like the typical handbook layout. Can you expand on what exactly you are looking at? What does that triangle mean?

It is the NFPA 70 Handbook International Electrical Code Series Mark W. Earley, PE 2020 Version. Bought it straight from NFPA. I did just check NFPA free version to compare and sure enough, it lists which rooms are required and bathrooms are not on it.

 

[augie47]

surprise surprise surprise gomer pyle - Google Search

 

[SSDriver]

Well it's clear with the handbook being there "Intent". We need to sell more AFCIs. Let's make a mistake in the handbook

 

[suemarkp]

I thought there was a code proposal to put AFCIs everywhere and it looked like it was going to pass so the NEC handbook used that language. But the proposal failed after the book was printed so the handbook is wrong. Mine is the same way so I put the corrected page in my handbook. With TIAs and errata, my handbook would have a lot of page additions if I put them all in there.

Overall, not too happy with my handbook purchase.

 

[ptonsparky]

I thought there was a code proposal to put AFCIs everywhere and it looked like it was going to pass so the NEC handbook used that language. But the proposal failed after the book was printed so the handbook is wrong. Mine is the same way so I put the corrected page in my handbook. With TIAs and errata, my handbook would have a lot of page additions if I put them all in there.

Overall, not too happy with my handbook purchase.

I quit buying it when the code classes became readily available. That and I had my EC by then and knew everything.

 

[augie47]

I quit buying it when the code classes became readily available. That and I had my EC by then and knew everything.

Not to worry, Even with the EC there is still one basic rule to remember

My wife knows everything stand up - Google Search

 

[mopowr steve]

Keep in mind, neither is anything but a piece of paper until adoption by the appropriate authority.
IF and when the NEC is adopted, then that publication, not the Handbook, becomes the enforceable document.

Ok then, what about areas that have no electrical AHJ departments. What then do the insurance companies and courts do about that?

 

[brantmacga]

My 2020 nec handbook looks the same and it is the NFPA handbook . Wondering if it was ammended or a misprint where they actually changed the text

I’m pretty sure there was an attempt to require AFCI’s on every lighting & receptacle circuit for 2020, and it looks like the handbook copied the text from a draft for this section. Very interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SSDriver]

I still want to see ANY test that shows an AFCI working that is not tripping on GFCI or with the help of a special machine that boosts voltage higher than utility voltage to trip an AFCI.

I have seen many receptacles burned and melted on AFCI circuits that weren't tripped

 

[kwired]

Ok then, what about areas that have no electrical AHJ departments. What then do the insurance companies and courts do about that?

Most cases there probably is something in state lawbooks stating That NEC is the installation standard, though it may not be most recent edition noted. If no inspections you get away with whatever you installed whether it complied with the code or not. If there is some kind of claim against you, the courts will determine how liable you are based on any evidence brought to their attention of any non compliant work you may have done.

How well this all gets presented my depend on any experts that are called as witnesses from either side of the lawsuits and how the testimony actually goes. The judge and the attorneys certainly don't know what is all required without the help of some of those so called experts and their testimony.

If you actually had a case with a jury, you could have entirely different outcome with a jury of trade experts vs a jury of handymen that think they know electrical, even though all the same testimony were presented to each jury.

 

[Jason S]

It is the NFPA 70 Handbook International Electrical Code Series Mark W. Earley, PE 2020 Version. Bought it straight from NFPA. I did just check NFPA free version to compare and sure enough, it lists which rooms are required and bathrooms are not on it.

Note that the original print of the 2020 handbook had an error in 210.12(A). An errata (correction) was issued on Feb 6, 2020 to correct that language and include all the rooms just like the regular code book has. I'm sure subsequent print runs and the online version have this correction already incorporated in it.