AFCI question

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ronaldrc said:
No,no,no
I am the real certified dummy because I don't know the answer to that question.:D


The Real Certified dummy
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Hey, hey, hey,......... don't you steal my title Ron!!!!!!! And don't even think you are eligible for it, 'cause you aren't, go to the back of the line:D
 
This is fascinating.

To my understanding, a GFCI only trips on the load side because it is "monitoring" the current "in" on the hot and "out" on the neutral sides and trips if there is an inequality, indicating a fault to ground.

However, the AFCI, as mentioned in various posts, electronically "sees" the parameters of the sine curve and reacts to deviations which fit the "signature" of an arc fault. (Pardon so many quotes but in a sense we are anthropomorphizing this process.) By this reasoning, as other people have pointed out, the device should trip with any arc fault in series with the current, whether up-or downstream.

Looking forward to hearing from someone who actually knows what they are talking about ! (I mean in comparison to myself, not you guys who posted earlier !)
 
flashlight said:
This is fascinating.

To my understanding, a GFCI only trips on the load side because it is "monitoring" the current "in" on the hot and "out" on the neutral sides and trips if there is an inequality, indicating a fault to ground.

However, the AFCI, as mentioned in various posts, electronically "sees" the parameters of the sine curve and reacts to deviations which fit the "signature" of an arc fault. (Pardon so many quotes but in a sense we are anthropomorphizing this process.) By this reasoning, as other people have pointed out, the device should trip with any arc fault in series with the current, whether up-or downstream.

Looking forward to hearing from someone who actually knows what they are talking about ! (I mean in comparison to myself, not you guys who posted earlier !)
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I find that fascinating myself brother. Are you saying AFCI's are intended to open up on line side faults?
 
Know
We are talking about an Electrical noise created by a spark or arc and in the microamps. similar to a strong radio signal impressed on the conductor.

We probably could not even trip a breaker with this small of a current even with a CT. and differential amp. I did say probably. And this being the case why would it stop at the breaker contacts and it is an AC current it could originate on the line side and still get to the shape sensing electronics of the AFCI. :)
 
Ron, the electronics stopping the fault lies in the breaker itself, it has to come load side. Whatever flashlight is talking about,....I have no idea.
 
Well nemo

We can get by with just using one AFCI now because someone that knows what there talking about says it will trip with line side faults,how can the inspector argue with that :D
 
I'm just following up on some thoughts from previous posts. If what AFCIs do is monitor the sine curve, an event upstream would change that as surely as one downstream.

But that's certainly not what they are designed for. Do they work that way ?
Not to my experience, but arc fault conditions on the line side are probably much rarer than on the load side.

At any rate, I should take my seat. I was just joining in the conjecturing here (see previous posts), and I've never seen a diagram of how an AFCI is built.
 
ronaldrc said:
Well nemo

We can get by with just using one AFCI now because someone that knows what there talking about says it will trip with line side faults,how can the inspector argue with that :D
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No, you will still need a panel-full of AFCIs. If a fault upstream of an AFCI can cause one to trip, then you need them all to trip in order to make sure the circuit that's affected is shut off.

flashlight said:
I'm just following up on some thoughts from previous posts. If what AFCIs do is monitor the sine curve, an event upstream would change that as surely as one downstream.

But that's certainly not what they are designed for. Do they work that way ?
Not to my experience, but arc fault conditions on the line side are probably much rarer than on the load side.

At any rate, I should take my seat. I was just joining in the conjecturing here (see previous posts), and I've never seen a diagram of how an AFCI is built.
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But sinewaves only flow between the load, or cause, and the source. The sinewave of one circuit has no bearing on any other. If that were the case, then simple circuit breakers would be affected the same way.... overload one, and they all trip.
 
Nemo

I'm waiting for some who knows that for sure to speakup.

Do you know for a fact there is a chip that rejects the arc signal from coming in on the line side? :)
 
How can I explain this better? The breaker detects the fault, the fault has to come load side. I can not draw diagrams on my home computer.


Let me ask you two this,...what does an AFCI do? How does it do it?
 
ronaldrc said:
Nemo

I'm waiting for some who knows that for sure to speakup.

Do you know for a fact there is a chip that rejects the arc signal from coming in on the line side? :)
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It doesn't have to reject it, it has to pass through it.
 
480sparky said:
No, you will still need a panel-full of AFCIs. If a fault upstream of an AFCI can cause one to trip, then you need them all to trip in order to make sure the circuit that's affected is shut off.

Well OK that makes sense too.:)


But sinewaves only flow between the load, or cause, and the source. The sinewave of one circuit has no bearing on any other. If that were the case, then simple circuit breakers would be affected the same way.... overload one, and they all trip.
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We are talking about a signal created by a spark and impressed on the wiring.:)
 
Frankly in My OP, the OP won't except any of the stated and answered statements that have been expressed and covered your question.

If you want to recall anything maybe its why we breaker electrical service, then maybe, what we might want to use
it in some/a application.
 
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