AFCI trip on new furnace

[don_resqcapt19]

The ground fault circuitry, added to AFCIs because they suck otherwise, is what was effective. AFCIs are a fraud and a waste of money.

While all of the original branch circuit and feeder type AFCIs, had a ground fault circuit, many of the brands of the currently required combination type AFCIs no longer have a ground fault protection circuit. GE was the first to eliminate that about 10-12 years ago, then one of the Eaton lines and most recently Siemens.

 

[kwired]

You would think the code making panels would be smart enough to figure this out themselves. It's not like the mountain of complaints all these years has been hidden. It's almost like they are in on the fraud.

Has anybody ever written a PI to have all AFCI requirements stricken? And dozens of other companies and individuals to barrage them with the same for every new code cycle?

-Hal

I see it somewhat no different than how big businesses get in cahoots with politicians and persuade them to make laws that favor their bottom line. I don't want to turn the thread toward politics just want to point out there is similarity to what does happen there. This just not on quite as big of scale that the general public sees in some political things as they get these products installed and often don't know what they are and only notice it if it frequently trips on them. Is more of a "Code politics" sort of thing and mostly seen by the people out there in the electrical professions, and doesn't matter which side you are on the issues are mostly only a thing within the electrical professionals community.

Is easy to be bought in by presentations that the manufacturers provide showing the benefits of these devices, and they can dismiss any problems by claiming if it saves just one life it is worth it, and some people will take that bait. There simply isn't deep enough pockets by any organization opposing these to put the money into any kind of campaign against them as the manufacturers will dump a lot of money into convincing code making panels otherwise. So we are stuck following rules we don't entirely agree with or do take at least some risk not following those rules in situations where there is not going to be code enforcement involved.

 

[ActionDave]

While all of the original branch circuit and feeder type AFCIs, had a ground fault circuit, many of the brands of the currently required combination type AFCIs no longer have a ground fault protection circuit. GE was the first to eliminate that about 10-12 years ago, then one of the Eaton lines and most recently Siemens.

I know, and it's a shame that AFCI, which is ineffective, is still being mandated when we all could be safer with RCD or GFPE level protection.

 

[hbiss]

There simply isn't deep enough pockets by any organization opposing these to put the money into any kind of campaign against them as the manufacturers will dump a lot of money into convincing code making panels otherwise.

Not a campaign, a class action lawsuit. This is huge enough for some large law firm to make some money with an action against the manufacturers and the NFPA.

-Hal

 

[ActionDave]

Not a campaign, a class action lawsuit. This is huge enough for some large law firm to make some money with an action against the manufacturers and the NFPA.

-Hal

I keep saying it's too bad that the 100% AFCI requirement for all resi branch circuits didn't make it into the code a couple cycles back. That was our best chance of having the right lawyer get his pipes frozen or his medical device tripping out in the middle of the night and start the ball rolling on a class action suit.