AHCA inspections
- Thread starter ccha9219
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Re: AHCA inspections
He failed the main service because the grds and ntrl on the same bus bar
(he made us move the green wires to ground bar
and the white wires to the nut. bar )
he failead the gen set for not haveing a surge arresster at the gen panel witch he said is required. He also failed the lighting because we had critical branch ckts in the same conduit
as regular power in direct conflict with 517-41 (d)I questioned it and at that point he made it clear he didn't much care what the code said he would not accept it
ccha9219
He failed the main service because the grds and ntrl on the same bus bar
(he made us move the green wires to ground bar
and the white wires to the nut. bar )
he failead the gen set for not haveing a surge arresster at the gen panel witch he said is required. He also failed the lighting because we had critical branch ckts in the same conduit
as regular power in direct conflict with 517-41 (d)I questioned it and at that point he made it clear he didn't much care what the code said he would not accept it
ccha9219
Re: AHCA inspections
Well the only ligitimate issue he had was 517-41(D).
By taking a defensive stance when questioned, he has shown he is insecure in his expertise and is going to make up his own rules. This being the case, he definately will not let you be privy to any information that may proove this incompetence.
I would think (pretty much sure) the state of FL by some law would have to make this information available for the public.
Roger
Well the only ligitimate issue he had was 517-41(D).
By taking a defensive stance when questioned, he has shown he is insecure in his expertise and is going to make up his own rules. This being the case, he definately will not let you be privy to any information that may proove this incompetence.
I would think (pretty much sure) the state of FL by some law would have to make this information available for the public.
Roger
Re: AHCA inspections
517-41 (d) states that critical branch can be in the same conduitas normal power. It was on this passage we installed our feeders also Needless to say when we started cutting out the hand holes in the parking lot my boss was not impressed. Life saftey is the only system that needs to be seperate.
I'm sure the info is out there somewhere
finding it is another story..
ccha9219
517-41 (d) states that critical branch can be in the same conduitas normal power. It was on this passage we installed our feeders also Needless to say when we started cutting out the hand holes in the parking lot my boss was not impressed. Life saftey is the only system that needs to be seperate.
I'm sure the info is out there somewhere
finding it is another story..
ccha9219
Re: AHCA inspections
ccha9219, first of all Welcome to the forum.
My appologies, I am so conditioned to 517.30, that when we speak of two systems, I think of "Emergency" as being both "Critical" and "Life Safety" branches.
I have some FL license and govenment web sites bookmarked at work, I'll see what I can find next week.
Roger
ccha9219, first of all Welcome to the forum.
My appologies, I am so conditioned to 517.30, that when we speak of two systems, I think of "Emergency" as being both "Critical" and "Life Safety" branches.
I have some FL license and govenment web sites bookmarked at work, I'll see what I can find next week.
Roger
Re: AHCA inspections
Many people forget the NEC code book is just a book. The local inspection authority can accept the NEC as is, reject the entire book, change what they want. Remember, the inspector has the final say. He's the one that signs off on the ticket, and one inspector will not usually override another inspector. If the book says paint it green and he wants it pink, paint it pink. You got who you got, arguing with him is a no no. Asking questions is good, then do it his way.
Many people forget the NEC code book is just a book. The local inspection authority can accept the NEC as is, reject the entire book, change what they want. Remember, the inspector has the final say. He's the one that signs off on the ticket, and one inspector will not usually override another inspector. If the book says paint it green and he wants it pink, paint it pink. You got who you got, arguing with him is a no no. Asking questions is good, then do it his way.
Re: AHCA inspections
Joek, sorry, but if the AHJ is going to amend, exceed, reject, romance, dance with, or use the NEC as a napkin, it must give a formal set of rules or standards to follow, or there will be anarchy in the least.
Now if you are going to roll over and accept this, so be it, but you are only doing yourself, the trade, and the AHJ injustice.
Roger
[ February 20, 2004, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
Joek, sorry, but if the AHJ is going to amend, exceed, reject, romance, dance with, or use the NEC as a napkin, it must give a formal set of rules or standards to follow, or there will be anarchy in the least.
Now if you are going to roll over and accept this, so be it, but you are only doing yourself, the trade, and the AHJ injustice.
Roger
[ February 20, 2004, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: AHCA inspections
I find it very disturbing how many people have this attitude.
I find it very disturbing how many people have this attitude.
Re: AHCA inspections
CCHA9219 - Back to the orginal question.
Re: Panel Wiring - There are townships in my area which requires the neutural and grounding wires be installed on separate bars. Some go as far as requiring the bare copper wire be wrapped in green tape.
Re: Surge Protector - Since the nursing home has sensitive monitoring and life support systems, they must be protected from electrical surges when the generator comes on. This is required in my area.
Re: Conduit wiring - You did not mention if the lighting conductors are for general or essential wiring. Also the critical wiring serves the fire alarm system and emergency call alarms. If the fire alarm system is power-limited you need to check 760.55 for cable separations.
CCHA9219 - Back to the orginal question.
Re: Panel Wiring - There are townships in my area which requires the neutural and grounding wires be installed on separate bars. Some go as far as requiring the bare copper wire be wrapped in green tape.
Re: Surge Protector - Since the nursing home has sensitive monitoring and life support systems, they must be protected from electrical surges when the generator comes on. This is required in my area.
Re: Conduit wiring - You did not mention if the lighting conductors are for general or essential wiring. Also the critical wiring serves the fire alarm system and emergency call alarms. If the fire alarm system is power-limited you need to check 760.55 for cable separations.
Re: AHCA inspections
Originally posted by joek: CCHA9219 - Back to the orginal question.
Roger
Originally posted by joek: CCHA9219 - Back to the orginal question.
Do these townships have formal amendments for these requirements, or is it just somebodies whim?
This may be required in your area, and may be a good idea, but it is not required by the NEC.
The critical branch can not serve the F/A or any Alarm and Alerting Systems see 517.42(C) and 517.43.
Roger
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: AHCA inspections
If the service disconnect is not in this panel the NEC requires the separation.
[ February 21, 2004, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Just to be clear you are talking about a service panel that includes the service disconnect?
If the service disconnect is not in this panel the NEC requires the separation.
[ February 21, 2004, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: AHCA inspections
If the neutral bar is bonded directly to the steel of the enclosure by a screw or strap and the ground bar is fastened to the directly to the enclosure with no copper or aluminum conductor between them I feel that violates 110.5
Bob
[ February 21, 2004, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Depending on how the bonding is done (how the ground bar is connected to the neutral bar) That might be a problem with neutral wires on the ground bar.
If the neutral bar is bonded directly to the steel of the enclosure by a screw or strap and the ground bar is fastened to the directly to the enclosure with no copper or aluminum conductor between them I feel that violates 110.5
While 250.118 lets us use the steel of an enclosure for grounding (not normally carrying current) I do not see any article that allows using the steel of an enclosure as a conductor that normally carries current as a neutral does.
Bob
[ February 21, 2004, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
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