AHCA inspections

[ccha9219]

Re: AHCA inspections

Gentelmen let us not forget we are all supposed to be tradesmen.
Inspectors are there to inforce the code if they are wrong I will tell them so...
If I am wrong show me the code and will amend my ways
as for getting it done and getting paid.....
you tell'em Roger!!!
ccha9219

 

[ccha9219]

Re: AHCA inspections

iwire..
It is within the MDP the nut and gr are coomon by means of the main bonding jumper.110.5 does not apply

 

[ccha9219]

Re: AHCA inspections

Originally posted by roger:
Originally posted by joek: CCHA9219 - Back to the orginal question.

Re: Panel Wiring - There are townships in my area which requires the neutural and grounding wires be installed on separate bars. Some go as far as requiring the bare copper wire be wrapped in green tape.

Do these townships have formal amendments for these requirements, or is it just somebodies whim?

Re: Surge Protector - Since the nursing home has sensitive monitoring and life support systems, they must be protected from electrical surges when the generator comes on. This is required in my area.

This may be required in your area, and may be a good idea, but it is not required by the NEC.

Re: Conduit wiring - You did not mention if the lighting conductors are for general or essential wiring. Also the critical wiring serves the fire alarm system and emergency call alarms. If the fire alarm system is power-limited you need to check 760.55 for cable separations.

The critical branch can not serve the F/A or any Alarm and Alerting Systems see 517.42(C) and 517.43.


Roger

This nursing home only has resident rooms no patient care areas or means of life support
ccha9219

 

[iwire]

Re: AHCA inspections

Originally posted by ccha9219:
iwire..
It is within the MDP the nut and gr are common by means of the main bonding jumper.110.5 does not apply

Not so for every panel.

A panel that has a bus bar from one bar to the other along with a bonding screw, yes land neutrals and grounds on either bar.

Other panels do not have a bus bar between the grounding bar and the neutral bar.

These panels have a neutral bar that is bonded to the enclosure by a 10/32 and an entirely separate grounding bar fastened to the enclosure.

Yes these are electrically common but it would not be correct to use the steel enclosure as a conductor for the normal path of current.

In these types of panel landing the neutral conductors to the grounding bar is the same as just lugging them to the enclosure.

Would you say that it it is correct to expect the 10/32 bonding screw to carry neutral current 24/7?

 

[ccha9219]

Re: AHCA inspections

Unless I'm wrong at any MDP gr and nt are common no matter what the panel configuration Bonding the nt the can is illegal when a equipment gruond is present and seperate(making it after the first means of disconnect) unless you have a main disconnect on the building that feeds your MDP....
in either case they are always common at the first means.
It is just plain stupid to bond the nut to the can in any instance.
ccha9219

 

[iwire]

Re: AHCA inspections

Originally posted by ccha9219:
Unless I'm wrong at any MDP gr and nt are common no matter what the panel configuration

No you are not wrong and the code does require the neutral to be bonded to the enclosure at the service disconnect / panel

But how this is accomplished can make a difference on where the neutrals can be terminated.

 

[roger]

Re: AHCA inspections

Ccha9219, Here is an example of what Bob is refering to.

Note: I am not showing the EGC's here.

The correct way.

Roger

 

[iwire]

Re: AHCA inspections

Thanks Roger you are truly freaking me out now, I just came back from setting up a picture to illustrate this and find you have already done so.

This image does not exactly match Rogers fine example but the idea is the same.

If we land neutrals on the small terminal bar on the right hand side the neutral current will be using the steel of the enclosure and the green bonding screw in the bottom of the left hand neutral bar as a conductor for the normal flow of current.

I believe that would violate 110.5

 

[ccha9219]

Re: AHCA inspections

I understand what Bob was trying to say
Panel A would be illegal (You cant use the can as a current carrying coductor)
Panel B would be the right way
**Roger...
I have seen alot of things in the feild some highly "inventive" others highly SCARY.
It's nice to type with people who are still tradesmen

 

[roger]

Re: AHCA inspections

Bob, it does seem to be getting scary doesn't it?

This image does not exactly match Rogers fine example but the idea is the same.

fine example may be a stretch. (I'll put the check in the mail Monday )

Ccha9219,

It's nice to type with people who are still tradesmen

ain't it the truth. There are some of the best here.

Roger

 

[ccha9219]

Re: AHCA inspections

Roger, Bob
It's scary how many 10 "helpers" out there are running jobs they aren't qulified to pipe much less be in charge of. most of the guys I have worked with wouldn't know a wing nut from a wire nut
ccha9219

 

[drg]

Re: AHCA inspections

Great, just great!!!!!!! just what we need is another one to tell us how dumb all us beginners are.

John

 

[iwire]

Re: AHCA inspections

Originally posted by drg:
Great, just great!!!!!!! just what we need is another one to tell us how dumb all us beginners are.

John

Hang in there John you picked a career that in my opinion is an interesting one.

That aside you will have to have a thick skin to work in construction many people will tell you very directly what they think of you and your work.

Laugh it off, unless they are signing your check why should you care what they think.

Your hanging out here, trying to expand your knowledge, FWIW that says to me you are the kind of guy that I would want to work with.

 

[roger]

Re: AHCA inspections

John, you don't fit in the discription above. There are those who are just concerned in the pay check and knowing just enough to get by, this includes those new to the trade as well as those I call lifetime helpers. Then there are those who can't get enough knowledge.

Roger

 

[ryan_618]

Re: AHCA inspections

John, you've already come a long way since you first started posting. Keep it up, you're doing great.

When I was an apprentice I worked for a shop that awful to their apprentices, in fact, I called one of my journeymen outside one time for a "talk".

Thats just part of it. Keep it up, like Roger and Bob said, that comment doesn't apply to you. Consider the fact that Bob, Roger and I have all said it...then notice the fact that three of us are brutally honest. If it applied to you, you would know!

 

[drg]

Re: AHCA inspections

Thank for the support guys,


John, done venting.

 

[iwire]

Re: AHCA inspections

Originally posted by ryan_618:
notice the fact that three of us are brutally honest.

You must have seen some of the employee reviews I have turned in.

Apprentices, Journeymen and Masters, all three, for better or worse get a "brutally honest" review.

 

[drg]

Re: AHCA inspections

One of best things I heard on the job the other week was from a contractor at lunch , he said to me and one of the master electricans that I work with....... having seen you 2 guys work together for over year and never once have I seen you 2 guys have a arguement or yell at each other ....thats rare!!

That was nice to here someone say that, made me think that things are working out good for me.


John

 

[ccha9219]

Re: AHCA inspections

Originally posted by drg:
Great, just great!!!!!!! just what we need is another one to tell us how dumb all us beginners are.

John

John
No offence brother!!!! obviously you dont fit the discription of a "10 year helper".If the term bothers you I could use the technical term we use at the shop "useless and do-little" .

 

[drg]

Re: AHCA inspections

ccha9219, Roger was right, i have been thinking about this all afternoon and he was correct in saying some people are lifetime helpers, I just never thought of it that way.. but how true it is.....

You have the right to make that statement about helpers, have seen it before but guess I never looked at it like you guys do..

We had house cleaning at work last year and a lot were never called back, we still have what you would call lifelong helpers left , only 2, but they both have many years in and the company does not make me work with these 2 anymore.

They are both extremly difficult to get along with and get upset if you code reason with them, which you cannot because they have been doing it their way for 30 years and get hyper if you question them.....HA Ha.......Man, they make things difficult if not impossible but that is not my worry anymore and has not been since last summer.

Anyways I see where you guys are coming from and will apologize on my part, I am sure now of your intent and see why you said what you did .

Everyday this whole thing keeps making more sense,

John,