AI to help prevent illegal construction

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petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Call 'em what you want, jes dont call 'em late to dinner....
Here in good 'ol az/ca v.5.9... Its most definately rat.
P.s... Scabs was a waaay different time, for wiremen its rats... I guess..
I don't. No unions here for engineers so I am not big on union things.

I would not call someone a nasty name just for working non-union. Only about 7% of workers in the private sector belong to unions, so I would be calling the majority of workers nasty names.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
If more licensed contractors went to open houses, and exercised their public right to report un-permitted additions & defects, that would put it on record at building departments, effectively creating the open permit that forces title companies to act, until permits & defects are resolved.
That's something the AHJ should be doing, not us.
 

rambojoe

Senior Member
Location
phoenix az
Occupation
Wireman
I was recalling some certain jobs of old, not accusing you..this was back 20 some years when non union was getting it done and leading the accident board. Now everyone has the same amount of paperwork and standing around and somehow union jobs are leading in "mishaps"... I think AZ is booting the old right to work Law currently... fwiw
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
the link you cite seems to be more about deliberate fires or disputes about the extent of damage rather than no permit.
Municipal-code enforcement can revoke occupancy per UBC 18.90.110 (.30) for avoiding building permits & safety inspection, but that hammer is rarely used, since political back lash, de-funding, and recall elections have resulted for far less.

I've witnessed clients cancelled over the phone, for leaky plumbing that watered the level below. No electrical, or permits required for drywall & paint.

It was the clients burden to challenge, but they just folded up tent and ran. Sold the uninsured house and moved into a condo insured by an association.

Another client works for an insurance underwriter, writing software that walks agents thru the claims investigation by phone. All the legal options available to insurance are not known by me, but I believe it includes both building codes, local laws, and insurance code.

The Cancellation & Non-Renewal book only points to Insurance Code in my State, specifically using the language "shall not increase hazards insured against".

If an owner is challenging insurance cancellation in court, proving an "increased hazard" under the Insurance Code should require insurance to show clear safety violations. Missing safety inspections may allow "increase hazards", but weather that meets the statute without physical evidence of fire hazards, or code violations would be in the trial transcript. Searching such case precedents would require access to legal research databases.

However, if owners take insurance to court after using an unlicensed contractor, dumb enough to advertise in public domains, be found, and forced to appear, the court would certainly crucify the unlicensed idiot, and property owner.
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
Why do you care? You are an EC, aren't you? Do your job and get paid. Let the owner worry about insurance issues.

-Hal
My GL insurance and their property insurance governs my work policy, and convinces clients otherwise adverse to follow code, and fix hack jobs.

My clients pay me to get AFCI's working, some even want AFCI's where not required, because they like my policy.
 
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ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
instead, lets use information already available to municipalities (time-stamped GIS data) to identify unpermitted additions and punish licensed (or unlicensed) contractors for performing them.
Excellent idea.

Google GIS requires a subscription for updated access, since the public GIS data is not updated or time stamped, but I hope municipalities or even States could pool resources to pay for a multi-user subscription.
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
some hojo will make their living going around to open houses every weekend looking for mismatched receptacles and new vanities, air conditioners, waterheaters, etc and check for permits and then threaten to notify the building department
Not if building departments wont go along with it, or code enforcement won't recognize a missing AFCI, and wont open a permit.

Missing additions during home sales is a different matter, since it involves missing revenue from increased square footage during property-tax assessment.
 
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rambojoe

Senior Member
Location
phoenix az
Occupation
Wireman
You have never seen the giant inflatable rat at a non-union job site in your area?....common site in northern IL. As I recall, he is named "scabby the rat"
Are you serious?!
Inflated with pride by ???
I thought just railworkers, meat packers, truckers and churches were hard core...
But are you joking?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Are you serious?!
Inflated with pride by ???
I thought just railworkers, meat packers, truckers and churches were hard core...
But are you joking?
All of the trade unions in the big cities use the rat...Its use has been upheld by the NLRB with a statement that the use is protected by the First Amendment. A federal district court judge in New York came to the same conclusion a number of years ago.
 

rambojoe

Senior Member
Location
phoenix az
Occupation
Wireman
All of the trade unions in the big cities use the rat...Its use has been upheld by the NLRB with a statement that the use is protected by the First Amendment. A federal district court judge in New York came to the same conclusion a number of years ago.
I meant the inflatable rat...
 

drcampbell

Senior Member
Location
The Motor City, Michigan USA
Occupation
Registered Professional Engineer
... I think AZ is booting the old right to work Law currently... fwiw
That might also be happening to Michigan's ten-year-old right-to-work law. I don't have many delusions about the bought-and--paid-for executive and legislature actually being on the side of working folks, but there's suddenly a barrage of feel-good advertising (that somebody's paying for) propagating the idea that everybody here loves RTW. When put to a vote, it garnered the support of about 30% of the electorate. (57% of the voters who bothered to show up)
 

drktmplr12

Senior Member
Location
South Florida
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Not if building departments wont go along with it, or code enforcement won't recognize a missing AFCI, and wont open a permit.

Missing additions during home sales is a different matter, since it involves missing revenue from increased square footage during property-tax assessment.
the building departments have no incentive to penalize homeowners trying to sell their houses by requiring an existing building, with no way to definitively prove when or if a small improvement was made, to have a permit opened while the house is listed for sale-or worse under contract. how many resources will that take? Some small cities/towns have only one engineer (or none!) and two or three inspectors. why is that? they leave that to the stakeholders, namely the homeowner and insurance company, who identify the risks (or hire inspectors to do so).

missing additions on the other hand, as you say-missing revenue. that's the perfect incentive. can the cost of applying AI/GIS/enforcement recover potential missing revenues? that depends on how rampant the problem
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Are you serious?!
Inflated with pride by ???
I thought just railworkers, meat packers, truckers and churches were hard core...
But are you joking?
Not at all. I've seen him myself at a couple of sites in NJ.

Giant-inflatable-rat_crop.jpg
 
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