AL/CU Wirenuts

Status
Not open for further replies.
JES2727 said:
But they do exist. They may not be suitable for your particular application, but the answer to your first question is simple : They're purple.
Click to expand...
OK I think I understand. I have seen the PURPLE wirenuts before, thought they were underground splices. They have Grease in them?

What is throwing me is color, I thought color determined the wire size range? :confused:
 
Mulrooney said:
Is there a disco within sight?
Click to expand...
YES But it is across town. My wife and I go there every so often to dance.

ACUnit001.jpg
 
dereckbc said:
OK I think I understand. I have seen the PURPLE wirenuts before, thought they were underground splices. They have Grease in them?

What is throwing me is color, I thought color determined the wire size range? :confused:
Click to expand...
I just returned from HD. They have purples for CU/AL, and blues for wet locations for CU only.

They also have both copper-only and dual-use (with the divider plate) split bolts.

Color is more tradition than hard-fast rule, like black/red/blue and brown/orange/yellow.
 
rosebud said:
The only legal connection are Copalum connections. . .

Check the back of the Ideal package and you will see that they are not really UL rated.
Click to expand...
twister_al-cu.jpg


So, this information at Ideal's web site, that says "UL Listed and CSA Certified" is "not really UL rated"?

:-?

I can show you pictures of regular "UL Listed" wirenuts that burned up on copper to copper connections. Does that mean they, also, are not really UL "rated"?
 
rosebud said:
The only legal connection are Copalum connections made by Tyco: http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catalog/cinf/en/c/10914/968

Check the back of the Ideal package and you will see that they are not really UL rated.

There is to many problems in joining Al to CU. Do not do it. We have photos to share.
Click to expand...

Both the Ideal 65's and the Alumiconn connectors are U.L. listed.

http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/references/ideal_ul_listed_combinations.pdf
http://www.alcopstore.com/resources/AlumiConn-spec-sheet.pdf

The Alumiconn connectors are now an additional method recommended by the CPSC.

The "inspectapedia" site hasn't updated this information, of course. IMO it is most likely a thinly veiled spam site run by someone with connections to Tyco. There is some decent info on there, but it has a severe Copalum bias.

I have worked on dozens of aluminum wire homes, and in reality, there is no one "best method" of repair. In many cases, the best combination of safety and economy leads to several different methods of repair or replacement being used on the same house.
 
LarryFine said:
On aluminum, yes, especially outdoors, even when not required.
Funny, I don't use bushings on MC, but I use no-ox on aluminum.
Click to expand...

Larry,
I use the method proposed by Inspectapedia .com, Aluminum Wiring Information website. http://www.inspectapedia.com/electric/
Think his name is Aronstein, a Ph.D., well worth reading and considering.
I have tried to repeat some of his experiments successfully. Was able to ignite a "Purple Wire Nut" (the famous one all the electricians swear by).
So, (from years back) the steps were:
(1) Strip the wires (Do Not Touch fingers to fresh Aluminum).
(2) Dip the fresh wire in No-Ox.
(3) Abrade the No-Ox into the surface. (I used the Kleins to scuff it in)
(4) Twist the conductors together. (half inch of twist).
(5) (Old method from years back) use a hard shell wire-nut
(of a specified name brand I forget) to clamp the wires together.
(6) Try to "Back-bone" the aluminum circuit wires,
with copper pigtails to the devices.

Now, I use the King Industries AlumiConn. Alcop Store Com.
King connectors have UL listing stamped everywhere!
King connectors have always been cool to touch :)
I have been able to ignite the Purple 65 wire nuts :mad::mad::mad:.

This is a good, interesting, and important thread.

My plumber friend drips water.
My painter friend drips paint.
I hear that some Electricians drip Sparks !!!
 
MarkyMarkNC said:
Both the Ideal 65's and the Alumiconn connectors are U.L. listed.

http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/references/ideal_ul_listed_combinations.pdf
http://www.alcopstore.com/resources/AlumiConn-spec-sheet.pdf

The Alumiconn connectors are now an additional method recommended by the CPSC.

The "inspectapedia" site hasn't updated this information, of course. IMO it is most likely a thinly veiled spam site run by someone with connections to Tyco. There is some decent info on there, but it has a severe Copalum bias.

I have worked on dozens of aluminum wire homes, and in reality, there is no one "best method" of repair. In many cases, the best combination of safety and economy leads to several different methods of repair or replacement being used on the same house.
Click to expand...

Marky,

Thanks for the post, and the links.

This is an important Fire Safety Topi Having checked on Tyco products years back,
I found a $1000 price tag on the CopAlum crimper,
and a two day required seminar for 'certification' before buying the crimper,
so, I have never considered getting into that method.

Can't run with 'spam', but
IMO, Aronstein has a bias against the "Ideal Purple 65".

In my experience, I have been able to ignite Purple ,
so I have a bias against Purple, too.
I was impressed with Aronstein's careful experiments,
with lots of pictures of hot burning wire-nuts.
I am not addicted to fires, but the pictures were clearly
something to think about.
I lived in a neighborhood of 3000 houses, for 17 years.
One house a month suffered from electrical fires,
NOT all burning to the ground thankfully.
*** ALL these houses were aluminum wired.
*** My house and my neighbors both suffered Fire Damage.
*** I retrofitted my house, and my neighbors'.

Thanks for the comment, Marky.
Fits right in with iWire and LarryFine.
 
Last edited:
Marky,

I just checked the Ideal website for Purple 65
( you have to scan down several pages to find "65" ) .

I found these peculiar media statements,
from which I have pulled relevant cites
(separated by "..." trying to be honest about it)
and suggest that we all check the Ideal product download and
see what they might actually mean:

//Quote

IDEAL Twister? Al/Cu Wire Connectors
Model
600 Volt Maximum
65
UL File No. E5238
600 Volt Maximum
...
The wire combinations listed below are for Aluminum to Copper conductors.
(Do Not use on Aluminum to Aluminum conductors.)
...
The wire combinations listed below are for Copper to Copper conductors.
(Do Not use on Aluminum to Aluminum conductors.)
...

//QuoteEnd

Don't know what to make of it.
From the SAME TABLE, for the SAME PRODUCT.
I know that several years back Ideal was ordered to change their media description of the '65',
then they did not for years, and now I see this ...
Don't know what to make of it.
IMO, it is just some more obfuscation.

Anyway, Tyco and King have genuine "UL listed" products
with clearly stated information.

Good Luck :)
 
rosebud said:
There's too many problems in joining Al to CU.
Do not do it.
We have photos to share.
Click to expand...

Rosebud,

Thanks for stepping up to the plate.
I had a house (17 years) with aluminum wire fire damage.
I have a dirty collection of burned aluminum joints.
Too many problems. Too many bad dreams.

Good luck :)
 
ADD arc-faults??

ADD arc-faults??

Just today I was asked to do a evaulation of the aluminum wiring in a house to be sold. I got a second call cancelling my trip. The insurance co. would not cover the house, therefore the sale fell through.


BUT ANYWAYS----


Why could a person not replace the old panel and install ARC-FAULT breakers??

Arc- faults are supposed to be a CURE-ALL.

What is you'all's opinion ???
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top