All Dual Function (AFCI/GFCI) Breakers Tripping

[Ragin Cajun]

And each code cycle the NEC keeps increasing where these POS's are required. I will not say more to keep in good graces with this excellent forum.

I am glad I am not too far from retiring and will not have to put up with the NEC anymore.

RC

 

[vtsoundman]

Couple of things to note about AFCI and GFCI breakers:

AFCI breakers will often trip if the hot/neutral current imbalance exceeds 30-50mA - and will act as a GFCI (albeit with a much higher trip current level). As this is not a controlled design element, it may not be easily found within the specs.

Newer AFCI and GFCI breakers may also trip with voltage transient exceeds 150-160V. Again, this is not a controlled design element so the performance is neither guaranteed or can be considered reliable.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
AFCI breakers will often trip if the hot/neutral current imbalance exceeds 30-50mA - and will act as a GFCI (albeit with a much higher trip current level). As this is not a controlled design element, it may not be easily found within the specs. ...

While all of the original branch circuit and feeder type AFCIs had a GFP function, at least two manufacturers of the currently required combination type AFCIs no longer have a GFP circuit in all of their AFCIs.

 

[vtsoundman]

While all of the original branch circuit and feeder type AFCIs had a GFP function, at least two manufacturers of the currently required combination type AFCIs no longer have a GFP circuit in all of their AFCIs.

Good to know...if I have chance to fire up the test right again, I'll see what happens when >100 mA differential.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Good to know...if I have chance to fire up the test right again, I'll see what happens when >100 mA differential.

You should find that none of the GE devices and the Eaton BR line do not have GFP. As far as I know the other devices still have a GFP circuit as part of their AFCIs. It is my opinion that the GFP does a lot of the real work, and should be required as part of the product standard, however the standard does not require GFP. The issue will go away as we continue to increase the areas where we need both AFCI and GFCI protection as there will be more use of "dual function" AFCI devices. Dual function devices provide both AFCI and GFCI protection.

 

[romex jockey]

I'm of the opinion the toroidal coil is the chief operational component that can only sense what a toroidal can sense regardless of electronica. That said , i'm less than amused that any manufacturer can exclude ,or for that matter include something ,and still pass UL1699 muster

~RJ~

 

[vtsoundman]

I'm of the opinion the toroidal coil is the chief operational component that can only sense what a toroidal can sense regardless of electronica. That said , i'm less than amused that any manufacturer can exclude ,or for that matter include something ,and still pass UL1699 muster

~RJ~

Anecdotal on AFCI...

I know some people have issues with them...I have not experienced random tripping with the newer gen products (albeit my res'd sample size is small size since my work is on the utility scale side).

I had ALL the afci receps trip in my house several times over the period of two or three weeks. Sometimes simultaneously, sometimes individually regardless of load. Couldn't find the issue or happen to capture it when I had my Fluke PQ meter deployed (not very frequently) -> turns out the 1/0 OH line into my house was actively arcing during wind and rain. One phase was nicked and arcing to the bare steel suporting neutral conductor. Out of the 8 or so strands, 3 were left....and one of the phases was effectively down to a number 10 wire.

PoCo pulled a new OH line...no more issues.

Spoke with my buddy who was the primary AFCI inventor/engineer at a major breaker company - he said they should not have tripped since some were lightly loaded (under 4A or not at all). AFCIs are not supposed to trip in the absence of a load.

I came away thinking that the mfrs really don't have a good handle on how/when they trip.

 

[romex jockey]

As far as i'm concerned, THIS is the final word on afci technology

~RJ~