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romex jockey said:
Yet Tesla ,had he had his way, would have charged the stratosphere, to reciprocate with earth as a 'return loop' .

It would have been interesting existing as a 'bird on a wire'. albeit delicate frequencies may not have coexisted so well with it

~RJ~
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Hate to be the one to rain on Tesla, but I'd be concerned about the health effects. Not that the current MGN system is perfect either...
 
mbrooke said:
Hate to be the one to rain on Tesla, but I'd be concerned about the health effects. Not that the current MGN system is perfect either...
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I’ll attest to that, I may have played with my Tesla coil to much. No wonder I’m the way I am.
 
mbrooke said:
Hate to be the one to rain on Tesla, but I'd be concerned about the health effects. Not that the current MGN system is perfect either...
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Tesla was quite the boy,that his theory challenges the mainstream is appreciable

That said , as we get closer to substations the concentration of MGN's in a TN-C-S invites Mr Kirchoff's wrath on in....;) ~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
Tesla was quite the boy,that his theory challenges the mainstream is appreciable

That said , as we get closer to substations the concentration of MGN's in a TN-C-S invites Mr Kirchoff's wrath on in....;) ~RJ~
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Perhaps a system like this ought to be considered:

learn-how-to-install-an-electrical-transformer.jpg
 

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Hmm. For residential installations does any country/region use a grounded supply where the grounded conductor is _not_ used as a circuit conductor?

What is the benefit of not using a grounded circuit conductor? It seems to me that as long as the grounded circuit conductor is treated as _potentially_ hot (like treating a gun as always loaded) then it is no more dangerous than only using 'hot' circuit conductors.

(Thus: equipment where the chassis is connected to the 'neutral' wire is an obvious safety problem if the neutral opens, but equipment designed with completely insulated supplies wouldn't care.)

-Jon
 
winnie said:
Hmm. For residential installations does any country/region use a grounded supply where the grounded conductor is _not_ used as a circuit conductor?

What is the benefit of not using a grounded circuit conductor? It seems to me that as long as the grounded circuit conductor is treated as _potentially_ hot (like treating a gun as always loaded) then it is no more dangerous than only using 'hot' circuit conductors.

(Thus: equipment where the chassis is connected to the 'neutral' wire is an obvious safety problem if the neutral opens, but equipment designed with completely insulated supplies wouldn't care.)

-Jon
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Fun fact, the world's most popular plug, the schuko, is typically not polarized:

Schuko_plug_and_socket_annotated.png
 
romex jockey said:
Didn't know that.....what's the advantage?

~RJ~
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Three phase supplied systems in those countries are 415/240 volt wye systems. They ground the wye point and single phase circuits supplied by those are typically line to neutral @ 240 volts. If you do have a true single phase source then I suppose they just ground one lead so you still have basically the same thing for supply - 240 volts, one lead is grounded. Most their general purpose equipment is designed to be connected to this voltage, some may be polarity sensitive some may not be, same here with a lot of general use stuff except voltage is 120 volts.

Advantage I see has more to do with you get more power out of a circuit at 240 volts than 120 volts, either way you have a grounded conductor, then we do have some "heavy duty" loads that we do connect to 240 volts here mostly to take advantage of more power over smaller conductors/equipment, but we have that 120 volt to the grounded conductor with how we typically arrange things - mostly I think because there was already so much 120 volt equipment out there before anyone realized maybe a higher general use utilization voltage might be more economical/practical to use.
 
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winnie said:
Hmm. For residential installations does any country/region use a grounded supply where the grounded conductor is _not_ used as a circuit conductor?

What is the benefit of not using a grounded circuit conductor? It seems to me that as long as the grounded circuit conductor is treated as _potentially_ hot (like treating a gun as always loaded) then it is no more dangerous than only using 'hot' circuit conductors.

(Thus: equipment where the chassis is connected to the 'neutral' wire is an obvious safety problem if the neutral opens, but equipment designed with completely insulated supplies wouldn't care.)

-Jon
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A few places do:

The Philippines, Saudi Arabia, South America. Norway and some third world villages use an IT system, translating to ungrounded delta.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiZGIoIPApo
 
mbrooke said:
I think people are finally waking up, but still the myth of grounding electrodes clearing breakers persists:


https://youtu.be/LoQVdEQlmXM?t=380


Ground rods are NOT a backup EGCs, service neutral, or effective ground fault current path, and have nothing to do with fault clearing even if the service neutral is lost. Yes metal water mains might, but that is not the intent of the NEC or the intent of grounding electrodes.
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There is a " Farm " type setting I am likely going to have to clean up that involves some very long home runs back to the service panels that do not have a ground wire run with 240V loads. There are other disttasteful things such as Short Radius PVC water fittings being used and everything run in PVC, A Colossal and dangerous MESS. The last visit I made, I seemingly got this look of Mystification when I stated that every circuit must have a ground wire run. With this said, Farm and Ranch wiring is some of the worst and most dangerous I have ever encoinutered on the path. Its a wonder there are not more incidents.
 
Originally posted by winnie View Post
Hmm. For residential installations does any country/region use a grounded supply where the grounded conductor is _not_ used as a circuit conductor?

mbrooke said:
A few places do:

The Philippines, Saudi Arabia, South America. Norway and some third world villages use an IT system, translating to ungrounded delta.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiZGIoIPApo
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ungrounded delta is not a grounded supply and is not what is being asked about.
 
StarCat said:
There is a " Farm " type setting I am likely going to have to clean up that involves some very long home runs back to the service panels that do not have a ground wire run with 240V loads. There are other disttasteful things such as Short Radius PVC water fittings being used and everything run in PVC, A Colossal and dangerous MESS. The last visit I made, I seemingly got this look of Mystification when I stated that every circuit must have a ground wire run. With this said, Farm and Ranch wiring is some of the worst and most dangerous I have ever encoinutered on the path. Its a wonder there are not more incidents.
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I can assure you there is in fact worse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X1N0jFXTgs
 
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