Altering a disconnect

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I think it would be much safer for the electrician to drink bottled beer when working, especially if he is storing his empties inside the equipment....
 
iwire said:
How about a more realistic example? :smile:
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What! You have never seen that? :D

I buy a large pvc can that is listed. Install 10 motor starters with heaters that are listed, a control transformer listed of course, 4 vfd's also listed, with 8 lighted push buttons in the face (as you might have guessed- also listed).

How does one know that all these listed parts play nice together? What about the heating effects of the transformer, will it effect the overload functions? What if I drill holes to let the heat out? Will the arcing of the contactors have an effect on the insulation of the factory's insulated windings of that transformer?

Also, if there is anything that raises red flags while inspecting, such as drilling excessive holes in a disconnect, if I have the slightest indication that the modifications would add to the deterioration of the equipment, structural integrity, or subject someone who uses it to an arc blast, I would ask for it to be subject to re-evalution. Most often it is easier for it to be replaced. However, it is their choice to do such. (How fitting - I live in the "Live free or Die" State) Do they need to paint the exposed untreated steel? Do you really want an electrical inspector to decide a vary complicated control panel? In other words, would you rather have the inspector that only has a couple of minutes who is making 50k to 100k a year or wouldn't you want some one, or a group of people who have the resources to conduct such a thorough evaluation?

The inspector who approves an installation has some liability if the something goes wrong. Why would we asume that if he has concerns that have merit, that just because the instructions did not address the issue, that he has to approve it?

NEC said:
Approved. Acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction.
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Should we just change this to "Approved. Acceptable if not included in the instructions?"

Put a bunch of master electricians on a code forum, we all have tested to prove that we are capable of installing electrical installations, we have instuctions (code book) but how do we know that we will all get along while in the forum, isn't one of them you who decides?:D
 
resistance said:
I still stand on my last.

"Why don't we just alter the panel cover,and build our own Interlock kit....."
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The NEC would allow that as well if the AHJ agrees. :cool:

The NEC only requires that interlock equipment to be approved for the intended use. 702.4 / 702.6

Ask yourself why the NFPA chose the words 'approved' and 'suitable' vs 'listed' in those two sections. :cool:
 
volt102 said:
What! You have never seen that? :D
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Well... maybe :grin:

I buy a large pvc can that is listed. Install 10 motor starters with heaters that are listed, a control transformer listed of course, 4 vfd's also listed, with 8 lighted push buttons in the face (as you might have guessed- also listed).
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Lets say you do.

Show me a code section that prohibits doing that.

How does one know that all these listed parts play nice together? What about the heating effects of the transformer, will it effect the overload functions? What if I drill holes to let the heat out? Will the arcing of the contactors have an effect on the insulation of the factory's insulated windings of that transformer?
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That is all design issues not code issues.

Also, if there is anything that raises red flags while inspecting, such as drilling excessive holes in a disconnect, if I have the slightest indication that the modifications would add to the deterioration of the equipment, structural integrity, or subject someone who uses it to an arc blast, I would ask for it to be subject to re-evalution.
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I am sorry you have such little faith in you own ability to tell if a single hole drilled on the exterior of a disconnect is safe or not. :wink:

As often happens we have made huge deal out of a simple thing.

He is not planing on remodeling the inside of the disconnect switch, he asking about the simple addition of a lock.

The power company installs locks on all sorts of equipment that never had a place for a lock.
 
Yeah ,,,not only that Bob,.. they like to weld LB fittings closed,... paranoid buggers:grin:
 
iwire said:
Lets say you do.

Show me a code section that prohibits doing that.
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Nothing prohibits as you do it, but 110.2 can put a stop to it.

What triggers a third party inspection in Taxachussetts? (can you believe that spellchecker actually assisted me with that ;) )
 
iwire said:
Yes that is true, which as Charlie said
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Quote:
The disconnect is not required to serve as a readily available means to turn off the equipment in the event of an emergency.
These are exhaust fans for the building, what is it venting, to what class of structure ? Just an open thought!
 
volt102 said:
What triggers a third party inspection in Taxachussetts?
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I think a modification to the current carrying components of a disconnect would, or swapping new guts into an existing switch.

In other words major changes, not just lock being installed. :smile:



(can you believe that spellchecker actually assisted me with that ;) )
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LOL

I am not sure as a resident I should laugh or cry about that. :grin:
 
iwire said:
The NEC would allow that as well if the AHJ agrees. :cool:

The NEC only requires that interlock equipment to be approved for the intended use. 702.4 / 702.6

Ask yourself why the NFPA chose the words 'approved' and 'suitable' vs 'listed' in those two sections. :cool:
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I respect your answers and experience!! I just hope that when I have a question (rather simple or complex) that deride want come into play, and cloud your professionalism!:smile: ;)



 
iwire said:
I am not sure as a resident I should laugh or cry about that. :grin:
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No Sales Tax Here (but then again I don't know what they are doing in Concord right now. Actually, I'm not sure they do either :grin: )

Oh, btw, I agree with something simple as adding a lock....I just didn't agree that all things that are not covered in the instructions can be overlooked or evaluated by this guy :cool: at night. :D
 
iwire said:
I think a modification to the current carrying components of a disconnect would, or swapping new guts into an existing switch.

In other words major changes, not just lock being installed. :smile:





LOL

I am not sure as a resident I should laugh or cry about that. :grin:
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They have the highest unemployment payout for the country 600 per week plus 25 bucks a kid I think. Thanks Teddy. NY is only 405 and no kid bonus.
 
Taxachussetts
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What Google ABC Check came up with Toxicities

Last trip to Logan Airport I rented a car and stayed at an airport motel, the added taxes were REAL HIGH. If I remember correctly the taxes on the rental car exceeded the first day renatl rate. I explained to the counter woman that this was crazy, I said I think some patriots dressed liked Indians threw tea into the harbor complaining about taxation without representation. Her answer "you are a travel who you going to complain too." Easier to hit the traveler coming and going.
 
iwire said:
LOL yeah kind of like that. :grin:


But again the disconnect is there for the servicing the equipment, it is not there as a means of emergency stop.
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and a lot of disconnect switches are not rated for opening at full load. read the stickers that come on them.
 
If you can drill mounting holes and conduit holes, you can drill a hole for a lock.

The same rules apply. Don't do anything stupid.
 
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