alternatives to trenching

[kwired]

$1 per foot in loamy soil might be believable somewhere. Not to hammer rock.

Get in sandy soil and you can go pretty fast with a trencher, but trench walls do sometimes cave in and then it takes more time because you need to backhoe it out.

Sand too wet it caves in easier, sand too dry it caves in easier. Deeper the trench the easier it caves in. But when you need to do some hand digging sand does move much easier than most other soil types.

Been there many times where you are moving right along and then you see the last 20 feet you just dug suddenly has one wall cave in. You maybe went 100 feet with no problem before that.

 

[petersonra]

driveway= 24" regardless of wiring method.

Only 18" for single family dwelling driveways. T300.5.

However, if you trenched it and put 2 inches of concrete over it, it is only 6 inches.

 

[kwired]

Only 18" for single family dwelling driveways. T300.5.

However, if you trenched it and put 2 inches of concrete over it, it is only 6 inches.

So 6 inches if driveway is paved with at least 2 inches of concrete? Around here residential driveway probably going to be about 6 inches thick if concrete.

 

[petersonra]

So 6 inches if driveway is paved with at least 2 inches of concrete? Around here residential driveway probably going to be about 6 inches thick if concrete.

you would still have to dig the trench, it just would not need to be as deep.

I don't understand why if you trench it you can get by with 6 inches, but if it is not trenched it has to be 18 inches for rigid.

 

[drcampbell]

Dynamite?

 

[ptonsparky]

Is this true? I have never heard that rule. Good idea maybe but is that NEC?

Yes, it is.

 

[Fred B]

driveway= 24" regardless of wiring method.

Is this true? I have never heard that rule. Good idea maybe but is that NEC?

Yes, it is.

Unless you are dealing with driveway of one or two family dwellings, then you can be 18 inches but if it's a branch circuit 120V 20A or less with GFCI protection it can be 12 inches. NEC 2017 Table 300.5

 

[LarryFine]

Yes, good question and good answer. I have never done it but sounds fun to try. Is there a code section that lays out the method? Does the support wire have to be listed? is there a max distance before needing another support to the ground?

Technically, triplex and quadplex aren't covered by the NEC, but it's easy to use. Remember to identify your neutral wire well at both ends. Look for ridges molded in the insulation.

The "support cable" is the bare conductor, which has a steel center strand. It's supported at each end with a wedge clamp. You would only clamp the bare conductor.

Leave two to thrre feet at each end for splices.You'll want to use split-bolts or some other kind of mechanical or crimp splices. I'm not sure of maximum spans.

Is it best to buy Quadplex? This is not readily available from my supplier. Would SER cable work? What's the method for Putting tension on the wire? How do i insure there are no hard spots that will wear over time in the wind?

Definitely quadplex. Someone will have it. Each place who doesn't carry it, ask if they know who might.

You pull up the second end with a come-along. Allow for more travel than you think.

It's made for weather and wind exposure. It's what the power company uses.

We don't do any overhead service drops in my area, everything is underground, so I have zero experience with overhead.

It's very satisfying.

 

[Strathead]

Table 300.5

 

[kwired]

you would still have to dig the trench, it just would not need to be as deep.

I don't understand why if you trench it you can get by with 6 inches, but if it is not trenched it has to be 18 inches for rigid.

Technically, triplex and quadplex aren't covered by the NEC, but it's easy to use. Remember to identify your neutral wire well at both ends. Look for ridges molded in the insulation.

The "support cable" is the bare conductor, which has a steel center strand. It's supported at each end with a wedge clamp. You would only clamp the bare conductor.

Leave two to thrre feet at each end for splices.You'll want to use split-bolts or some other kind of mechanical or crimp splices. I'm not sure of maximum spans.

View attachment 2559679 View attachment 2559680

Definitely quadplex. Someone will have it. Each place who doesn't carry it, ask if they know who might.

You pull up the second end with a come-along. Allow for more travel than you think.

It's made for weather and wind exposure. It's what the power company uses.


It's very satisfying.

Don't forget there will be a little extra length needed for sag in the span. Shouldn't need to be a lot of length but is there.

For most smaller cable runs with somewhat shorter spans I use a rope with what I believe the boy scout books call a "blood knot" on the cable, pass it through the knob/insulator you will be supporting from and have a second person on the ground pull the rope to tension it while you hook the wedge clamp. May take a couple tries with where to tie the rope onto the cable, need to get it where it will allow proper tensioning of the span yet not so far away from the know you can't reach it off your ladder or whatever you are working from.

How far necessary between supports mostly will depend on loading conditions imposed by weather conditions primarily wind and ice and falling tree branches plus what the attachment method can handle. Icing weather conditions can add a lot of weight pretty easily. The cable may be able to take that but the attachment or whatever is attached to may not be able to take it. Add wind and things can get even worse.

 

[ptonsparky]

Let it droop in the summer and tug it up in the winter, but don't bust one to get all the sag out. Those last few inches can be a struggle. It looks worse from the ladder. Make sure you have required clearance over driveways etc. We used a couple small pulleys and rope. I just happen to have a complete system all made up and ready for delivery at $99.99, special today only.

 

[hillbilly1]

I use two come-a-longs, if you are working by yourself, you will have to hook several times, and I just swap back and forth until it’s where I need it.

 

[kwired]

I use two come-a-longs, if you are working by yourself, you will have to hook several times, and I just swap back and forth until it’s where I need it.

If you only on a ladder or other method that only allows you to be near the attachment point, how do you "re-attach" in mid pull?

some kind of aerial lift that allows you to reach any point in the span is understandable. I find myself only limited to what I can reach off ladder leaning against whatever attachment is mounted on probably over 99% of the time though. And high enough a step ladder is not an option.

 

[JoeNorm]

Technically, triplex and quadplex aren't covered by the NEC, but it's easy to use. Remember to identify your neutral wire well at both ends. Look for ridges molded in the insulation.

The "support cable" is the bare conductor, which has a steel center strand. It's supported at each end with a wedge clamp. You would only clamp the bare conductor.

Leave two to thrre feet at each end for splices.You'll want to use split-bolts or some other kind of mechanical or crimp splices. I'm not sure of maximum spans.

View attachment 2559679 View attachment 2559680

Definitely quadplex. Someone will have it. Each place who doesn't carry it, ask if they know who might.

You pull up the second end with a come-along. Allow for more travel than you think.

It's made for weather and wind exposure. It's what the power company uses.


It's very satisfying.

Thanks, very helpful for visualizing. So the proper wire will have that steel strand? is that always the case with quad wire?

 

[kwired]

Thanks, very helpful for visualizing. So the proper wire will have that steel strand? is that always the case with quad wire?

If designated as an aerial cable type, probably 99.99% chance of answer being yes.

PS. don't cut that bare conductor with your cable cutter intended for copper/aluminum only, the steel strand will damage your cutter blade edge.

 

[ggunn]

If designated as an aerial cable type, probably 99.99% chance of answer being yes.

PS. don't cut that bare conductor with your cable cutter intended for copper/aluminum only, the steel strand will damage your cutter blade edge.

Is that wire considered to be a messenger? Does it need to be electrically connected to anything? I assume it needs to be grounded.

 

[kwired]

Is that wire considered to be a messenger? Does it need to be electrically connected to anything? I assume it needs to be grounded.

It is a messenger wire, and an uncovered conductor. Uncovered is normally used for either Grounded service conductor where applicable or an EGC.

 

[wwhitney]

Is that wire considered to be a messenger? Does it need to be electrically connected to anything? I assume it needs to be grounded.

That wire is steel core aluminum, and is used for either the grounded conductor or the EGC, depending on application. Since I think the term "messenger wire" refers to an extra wire just used for support, I would not call it a messenger wire.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[hillbilly1]

Thanks, very helpful for visualizing. So the proper wire will have that steel strand? is that always the case with quad wire?

Yes, the poco uses the quad for three phase drops, so it is available.

 

[hillbilly1]

If you only on a ladder or other method that only allows you to be near the attachment point, how do you "re-attach" in mid pull?

some kind of aerial lift that allows you to reach any point in the span is understandable. I find myself only limited to what I can reach off ladder leaning against whatever attachment is mounted on probably over 99% of the time though. And high enough a step ladder is not an option.

When one reaches max pull, the other is latched onto the wire, first is released, cranking second to max, then connect first again, pulling it tighter. One is always connected holding the wire.