Am I losing my mind on not thinking today 20 amp circuits in a den or living room are

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ryandumas

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I just wired a 3 bdr house with a formal dining room on 20 amp circuit kitchen on 2 20 amp circuits and the den/living room on a 15 amp circuit and I falied inspection am I wrong if so where is it on the code book thanks for your help. I failed because of the 15 amp for the den
 
When I look at 210.52(B)(1), I do not see "den" on the list. Nor do I think a den qualifies as a "similar area" to any space that is on the list. I think your installation meets code, and it should not have failed inspection.
 
ryandumas said:
I failed because of the 15 amp for the den.
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Ask the inspector to show you where the NEC says you are wrong. Unless there are local amendments, he will probably reverse himself. 210.52(B)(1) states, "In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit . . ." Unless he interprets the den as being a similar area, a 15 ampere circuit is just fine.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
I would really be interested to see what the inspector of record says about this one.
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So would I but I also wonder why people get all bent out of shape before actually talking to the inspector ( a red tag is not the end of the world ). Many problems are nothing more than a communication problem. It's better if you are there for the inspection but if you can't be then in most areas you can call the inspector that afternoon or next morning.

Many times small problems like this can be settled over the phone without a great deal of hassel. It could be the guy's first day one the job and he may not know exactly what he's doing or there could be a real reason that was not fully explained on the red tag.

I have gotten a red tag just because an inspector looked at something wrong and what he thought he saw was not correct. Explained the situation to the inspector and recieved permisssion to hang rock the same day. All over the phone, no problem.

The best way to avoid problems is to communicate. Even if the inspector did make a mistake, don't try to rub his nose in it. The guy is probably only human anyway, those new robot inspectors won't be out for another year or two.
 
You would have gotten a red tag in my area too, our local building criteria does not allow 15 amp circuits or receptacles for convenience outlets in residential housing. Check the local building criteria in your area, it may not be NEC but the AHJ may have another set of rules.
 
ITO said:
You would have gotten a red tag in my area too, our local building criteria does not allow 15 amp circuits or receptacles for convenience outlets in residential housing. Check the local building criteria in your area, it may not be NEC but the AHJ may have another set of rules.
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Another thing he may want to check is, was there a plan left at the site when he inspected, showing 20A circuits on the plan, in the den area?
 
call he inspector and ask why you failed.Maybe he saw the room as something other than a den if your plans call it a den then you can show it to him and he may reverse it.
 
ITO said:
You would have gotten a red tag in my area too, our local building criteria does not allow 15 amp circuits or receptacles for convenience outlets in residential housing. Check the local building criteria in your area, it may not be NEC but the AHJ may have another set of rules.
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Sorry to hear that... ;)
 
Don?t know why but my local AJH has been publishing their own criteria in the form of an electrical code via city ordinance since before I can remember. This criteria supersedes the NEC, and causes problems from time to time with out of town (or state) engineers who are not familiar with it.

Here some more of the same article:

Kitchen- In addition to the (2) Kitchen circuits, individual 20A branch circuit(s) SHALL BE provided for the following: refrigerator, trash compactor, dishwasher, disposal, built-in microwave, vent hood, freezer, washer, dryer, or other fixed appliances. These individual circuits SHALL BE provided with a single receptacle in accordance with ?
 
ITO said:
Don?t know why but my local AJH has been publishing their own criteria in the form of an electrical code via city ordinance since before I can remember. This criteria supersedes the NEC, and causes problems from time to time with out of town (or state) engineers who are not familiar with it.

Here some more of the same article:

Kitchen- In addition to the (2) Kitchen circuits, individual 20A branch circuit(s) SHALL BE provided for the following: refrigerator, trash compactor, dishwasher, disposal, built-in microwave, vent hood, freezer, washer, dryer, or other fixed appliances. These individual circuits SHALL BE provided with a single receptacle in accordance with ?
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I wonder if your city guy is the same guy who wrote an article that was posted here last year that said how dangerous MWBC's were and every circuit should be a dedicated circuit? :-? :grin:
 
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