Am I losing my mind on not thinking today 20 amp circuits in a den or living room are

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ryandumas said:
Update I talked with the head inspector and he told me to look up 210.52 a

He claims that a den or living room is a similar room to a breakfast or dining room etc. I then replied all the rooms involve food in some way cooking it eating it and so on so how can he compare a den with a breakfast area. Anyways I needed to get the job done so I changed got paid and left
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The required 20 amp cicuit is the SABC the purpose is to allow the connection of portable small appliances i pantrys and dining/breakfast areas.210.52a needs to be supported by 210.52 (B) (1)
 
Tiger Electrical said:
I had another client complain that the circuit breaker tripped while vacuuming on a 15A circuit today. I knew you'd want to hear about it.

Dave
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Sounds like they are asking you install a circuit for an appliance... Happens all the time...
 
ITO said:
You would have gotten a red tag in my area too, our local building criteria does not allow 15 amp circuits or receptacles for convenience outlets in residential housing. Check the local building criteria in your area, it may not be NEC but the AHJ may have another set of rules.
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How long have they been doing that ITO and why are they doing that?:-?
 
ryandumas said:
Update I talked with the head inspector and he told me to look up 210.52 a

He claims that a den or living room is a similar room to a breakfast or dining room etc. I then replied all the rooms involve food in some way cooking it eating it and so on so how can he compare a den with a breakfast area. Anyways I needed to get the job done so I changed got paid and left
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I just took a look at 250.52 a and I can't see how he gets 20 amp circuits for a den out of that. I'ld be willing to argue on that one.:)
 
growler said:
Back in the good old days when I still had lots of hair I had a hair dryer that would operate just fine on a 15 Amp circuit. People with even more hair wanted bigger hair dryers ( a blow torch with a blower ).

In my opinion a 20 Amp. circuit started to be required for a bath room receptacle to accomodated one appliance, the hair dryer. I don't remember anyone thinking that this was the dumbest idea ever. There are curling irons and hair dryers that will work on a 15 Amp circuit so why was a 20 Amp circuit required?

You don't hear anyone complaining nor trying to get the requirement for a 20 Amp. bathroom circuit changed. Shouldn't you be allowed to run two 15 Amp circuits?

When you say you may need a 20 Amp circuit for a vacuum cleaner just what makes that so different from needing one for a hair dryer.
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You don't need a 20 amp circuit for any vacuum cleaner made period! they aren't made. these stupid ads for 12 amp vac's is just plain retarded. vacuums are not measured by amps they are measure by inches of lift and I can plug in 2 3 stage vac motors into a 15 amp circuit and it doesn't trip . period end of story it aint needed. if you trip a circuit with a vac it is because the vac is BAD! As far as the bathroom circuit 20 amps it is also bad to dictate design in the code because a half bath off the kitchen doesn't need a 20 Amp circuit and why tie it into a bathroom that does need it? it is stupid. The writers of the code have gone too far and they are more the cause of bad design issues in homes than what they have solved it is that simple. If you are a good electrician you should beable to design an electrical system for a home without dealing with code design issues. I had to put a receptical in a basement on the post that had been wrapped to a column because the inspector started measuring all sides and came up with 26" this thing was not in need of a receptacle.
 
Rewire said:
The required 20 amp cicuit is the SABC the purpose is to allow the connection of portable small appliances i pantrys and dining/breakfast areas.210.52a needs to be supported by 210.52 (B) (1)
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I agree.

If the den shares the same wall, as defined in 2008 NEC 210.52(A)(2), as the kitchen then the 20Amp requirement can be enforced. It has been used in this area for quite some time.
 
georgestolz said:
That section does not require a single receptacle.
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That is what the criteria says, almost verbatim...

iaov said:
How long have they been doing that ITO and why are they doing that?:-?
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Why?

There seems to be a general attitude of "we are not going to let somebody else (NEC) tell us how to run our city" coupled with some Organized Labor influence as well.

Some if it is a good thing like a full page defining 110.12 just so we all understand what kind of work is not acceptable.

Some of it is a pain like the rules on MC.

Example: No more than 4 MC terminations in any J-Box of any size and no MC terminations are allowed into a panel, which effectively means all home runs are EMT. Also MC can only be cut by an approved rotary-type cutting tool that is calibrated monthly to the manufacture’s specifications. No more than 3 cables may be bundled in a supporting ring… It goes on for about page like this.
 
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Good I'll get my Rot-Zip in and maybe they can adjust the muffler bearings on my truck. Might as well have my Cheese Straightener tuned up too.:grin:
 
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