Another EC price.

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Jerramundi said:
There is no misunderstanding that everything "costs" something, even if it's not monetary and just time and/or energy. I'm just willing to give an hour away without sneaking it back into my overhead because (1) I'm content with $50k/yr and have no desire to be rich, (2) I feel good doing something others, and (3) value working class solidarity.
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Being content with your pay is fantastic, as long as your pay can support you and your family and prepare you for economic shutdowns, retirement, and can cover health care all without government assistance.

I know a guy that is happy with his pay. He works for himself. He is really busy. He doesn't charge enough, yet is afraid to raise his prices. His family is on Obamacare because he lies about his pay on his taxes.

think of a bell curve...
the number of customers is the X axis.
your price is the Y axis.

Make sure your on the right side..
 
Jerramundi said:
You and Dale Carnegie should get together. I bet you two would have a blast. Personally, I think he was a manipulative SOB. I would argue referring to something as "free" but then charging for it in your overhead is manipulative AF, but that's just IMHO.
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Ever hear of "loss leaders" in retail it done all the time. It's never really free, if it is you won't be in business very long. Not much different than markups. Charging higher on some items to cover for small items, ie. that little green grounding screw, unless you are doing a job that is going to install a thousand you wouldn't be including the ten cents for the two boxes that you just installed. The customer would look at it and say, or at least think, you're nickle and dimeing me for that, but wouldn't bat an eye over the modest but accurate hidden markup, that covers the cost of that screw or wirenut or other little incidental.
I had one customer start to complain that "I can go to Lowes and get that ? For x". So i simply start re calc in front of him the screws, wirenuts, the added pigtail wire, my time to get the item and any other incidental, and goes he "ok,ok". That was the end of that debate.
 
Fred B said:
I had one customer start to complain that "I can go to Lowes and get that ? For x".
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Doesn’t that just make your blood boil sometimes?
Those comments make me want to say “then you should have went to Lowe’s and not called me.”
Some of the parts ARE cheap. It’s knowing what to do with them that drives the cost up.
 
Coppersmith said:
When quoting a price for a job...

"That's more than my husband makes!"

"That's more than I paid for the fan!"
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Once had a job installing a pool feeder that got sideways quick. Wife approved the $2500-ish quote, husband got the bill and lost his mind, said he “wasn’t prepared to pay that.”

This was a million dollar home in an area where the median home price is about $100k. His next door neighbor, another customer of mine, is a professional athlete.

Anyway, we bicker, I finally said “just pay the material and my actual labor costs and we’ll call it even, you can find someone else for the rest of the work.” He agreed.

Sent him a bill; I had two guys that made $23/hr there, so with burden thats about $29/hr.

He sent me a reply that said “you pay your employees $29/hr?????”

So anyway, I’m on my way to his house to start pulling out wiring and digging up conduit, consequences be damned, when I got a call he’d called and paid with a credit card.


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I just had a reputable well established residential GC send me a set of plans for a remodeling project. The sender requested "please send us a quote for this work ASAP."
I looked at the plans and could see this would be a $15-20k electric project.

I sent a message back thanking them for contacting me and asking when we could meet at the job site to review the project.
They replied: "we sent the plans. Can't you just send us a price?"

The way I see it, why would a reputable GC want to work with a sub they have never met? If they really wanted to work with me surely, they would have the time to meet in person? Besides, the plans had the main electric panel in the bathroom.
 
Take the job. Install the panel in the bathroom per the plans. When the inspector vetoes it, charge a big extra to move it. Profit!
 
brantmacga said:
He sent me a reply that said “you pay your employees $29/hr?????”

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Reply "you would really want to risk yours and your family's life on a $10 an hour guy that is not trained or qualified. Count me out.!!!!"
I've been behind some gc's who hire like that and its scary.
 
Coppersmith said:
Take the job. Install the panel in the bathroom per the plans. When the inspector vetoes it, charge a big extra to move it. Profit!
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Could they not turn around and say you are a Licensed EC you should no what is a code violation. When I found issue in prints at my last job. We would address it and wait to see what there replay is. I guess I am getting at should you not address it first that its a violation and see what they say.
 
Coppersmith said:
Take the job. Install the panel in the bathroom per the plans. When the inspector vetoes it, charge a big extra to move it. Profit!
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I would include the costs of relocating the panel now and in the future as options along with the cost as designed.

If I did the install according to improper plans, I might secretly install whatever would make relocation later easier.
 
Coppersmith said:
When calculating your overhead make sure you include the cost of every labor minute and every other cost you give away free. If you don't charge for them, they are an overhead cost. You might not charge the customer for the two hours labor and travel expenses you spend doing site visits, researching methods and materials, estimating and bidding, or emailing and phone conversations, but those things cost money and need to be in your overhead. To make this clear in your mind, always imagine yourself directing employees to do this work. Employees expect to get paid when they do these activities. Your are your own employee. You should expect to get paid as well. Don't do anything for free.
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wisdom
 
Coppersmith said:
This is the heart of the matter. Why work for free? Did you get into business to give away your labor? If you are successful then one day you will be able to ask an employee to compose an estimate. I guarantee s/he will not do it for free. And then you will have to pay for it. Why not pay yourself?
By not charging for that hour what you are in fact doing is lowering your rate. Your dollars per hour earned is lower. You make less money for your efforts. If you want to make less money then by all means, lower your rate, but proper accounting practices demands that you charge for that hour otherwise you are just fooling yourself.
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You will never run out of opportunities to work for free.
 
I looked at this small job a few days ago. I gave him a price and he said he would "consult his wife" and get back to me. Yeah, right. I know when I'm being blown off.

Today he calls and wants to confirm that I will be there tomorrow. "Um....you said you would consult your wife and get back to me. We didn't make an appointment." He was sure we did. "Ok, well I have tomorrow open so I can be there. If I remember correctly I quoted $749." He remembers $640. I check my notes...$749. "Sounds like maybe you are calling back the wrong contractor. Did you have someone else come out and look at the job? He swears he didn't and after some prodding accepts the $749 quote even though he already thought $640 was too much.

There are a lot of red flags here. I thought about calling back and cancelling the job but decided to see what happens. So I going out to the job tomorrow fully expecting to find somebody else is already there doing it. Oh well. And if I end up doing it I figure it's 50/50 if I get paid. I'll see if I can collect in advance when I get there.
 
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