Another jacuzzi tub bonding question???

[George Stolz]

Now I'm in the 2002.

Well, the 2002 was different.

2002 680.74 Bonding. All metal piping systems, metal parts of electrical equipment, and pump motors associated with the hydromassage tub shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid. Metal parts of listed equipment incorporating an approved system of double insulation and providing a means for grounding internal nonaccessible, non–current-carrying metal parts shall not be bonded.

The supply pipes are an integral feature to a hydromassage tub. Without them, the tub would be useless.

Metal piping systems supplying the hydromassage tub are associated with the tub. Under the 2002, the piping supplying the tub would be required to be bonded to the pump motor.

That's changed under the 2005:

2005 680.74 Bonding. All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid.

Now, the pump motor is not required to be bonded to the supply system at all. The supply system has nothing to do with the circulating water.

But does the water run through the heater so that it can be heated by electric coils and is that heater not part of the circulating system?

I agree with what I think you're saying - it seems the heater would need to be bonded to the motor with a #8 jumper, all under the tub where the user can't access them. While going against the panel statement, I'd say it is an enforceable view of the code text.

Do these heaters come with a bonding lug?

I do agree that if the installation instructions say that they are to be bonded, then they should be bonded.

110.3(B) does confirm this view:

(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

Don had an interesting comment in the other thread about this.​

(It kinda stinks having two discussions going at the same time about the same thing. )​

 

[raider1]

The proposal stated that the electrical components of the pump of the tub are isolated from the user of the tub, so there was no point in bonding them to anything.

I agree.

The metal piping systems (object #1) and grounded metal parts (object #2) in contact with the circulating water (object #3) are the items we have.

When #1 and #2 are in contact with #3, then #1 and #2 shall be bonded together. Agree or disagree?

I disagree that we have three parts to that sentence. I read that sentence to have two parts:

Part 1, The metal piping system.

Part 2, The grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water.

I would agree with your statement if there was a coma between "grounded metal parts" and "in contact with the circulating water."

I also agree that we have to have both items before any bonding is required and if we do have both, then it is just those items that need to be bonded together.

My point was that the "metal piping system" in 680.74 is not required to be in contact with the circulating water, to meet the requirements in 680.74.

Hope I am making sense.

Chris

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So Dennis,

Are you saying that the "metal piping system" must be in contact with the circulating water?

Chris

Yes, that's my take on it

 

[raider1]

Yes, that's my take on it

When have you ever seen the water supply piping system be in contact with the circulating water?

Read that section again,

"All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid."

Doesn't the "and" separate this into two parts?

Again, I feel that this point is moot, as I never see a "metal piping system" installed to a jet tub anymore, just PEX, so no bonding is neccesary.

Chris

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It is a moot point , however the metal piping system that is referred to I also understood to be the piping within the tub for the circulation. I believe the original tubs were made that way now they are all plastic.

 

[cowboyjwc]

OK I'm almost off.

George I think you and I are on the same page. This is one of those that if we were face to face it would be much easier to discuss.

Have a great weekend guys.

 

[M. D.]

http://www.homelivingsolutions.com/pdf/dignity-installation-9-19-05.pdf

Page six

George I have not seen many but all the in line heaters I have seen Have a presure lug for bonding .

 

[infinity]

Doesn't the "and" separate this into two parts?



Chris

No. The word AND connects the two parts together it doesn't separate them into two requirements.

 

[George Stolz]

I am closing this thread, as the content is the same as other threads in progress. These things come in threes; I am closing two and keeping one open for discussion, to make it easier for all to follow along.

Please comment in this thread.