Another worker lost their life

[Saturn_Europa]

the closest i've come to dying was 'cause i didn't want to get off the ladder and walk
6' to the switch. 110 volt can lights in a commercial t bar ceiling.

I got knocked of a ladder by 120. Luckily it was the second rung of a 4' ladder. But it was a wake up call. It would have been ugle on a taller ladder.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I got knocked of a ladder by 120. Luckily it was the second rung of a 4' ladder. But it was a wake up call. It would have been ugle on a taller ladder.

i was sitting on top of a ladder in a t-bar ceiling, and it went arm to arm, pulled 16 amp
or so, and tripped the breaker. there was a 4 amp load on the circuit before i became
part of it. knocked me out, and the grid kept me on top of the ladder. i don't remember
anything, but there was one person in the office, who said i was screaming, a lot.

took a couple days off work.

 

[Electric-Light]

Discussion in this thread gives some really good reasons why ballast bypass retrofit should be seen as a violation under intent of 90.1. It baffles me why this practice that leave generally dangerous conditions for every personnel without having compelling unavoidable reasons.

There is a general expectation to be free from unreasonable exposure to hazards from reasonable use even if a sticker is ignored. A building can not be altered into a booby trap with an expectation that occupants or management do not change over time and existing fixtures would not be serviced in a conventional manner by new personnel. A fluorescent fixture with fluorescent sockets and a sticker saying not to use fluorescent lamp is inadequate shield for the level of danger presented by alteration to fixture to fit integrated ballast LED lamp. UL has specifically stated such kits are listed as COMPONENT only and not the final equipment.

When a fluorescent lamp is inserted into a fixture that has been "ballast bypass" modified to use integrated ballast LED lamp, this is an example of what can happen.
For safety reasons, this tech energized the fixture remotely with a switch into pre-installed lamp. In the real world, it is more likely that a person would insert a lamp into the socket holding a dead LED lamp. Some lamps designed in a way that feels like fluorescent. http://www.lunera.com/wp-content/up...Reliability-Helen-Linear-LED-Lamps-0328-3.pdf

It's hazardous during commissioning because, an incorrect socket install could cause a bolted short.
it's dangerous for maintenance worker, because "putting in the wrong bulb" makes it go boom.
It's dangerous to people nearby when innocuous event goes wrong like this.

Image by author Cyberduke on GJ

 

[iwire]

Discussion in this thread gives some really good reasons why ballast bypass retrofit should be seen as a violation under intent of 90.1. It baffles me why this practice that leave generally dangerous conditions for every personnel without having compelling unavoidable reasons.

Stop, just stop. This thread is not about your favorite thing to complain about.

 

[Strathead]

I dont agree with what the person was told but i do need to say something.

As general practice someone should not work on something hot for the purpose of liablity of the ELC, if they do they should not discuss that, but among veterans of their experience, I am fine with them doing that but we don't tell.

I work with ELC in their 50s and 60s that can change an outlet in less then a minute hot and they can do this safer than someone that was trained to "not work on something hot". But don't discuss thiswith young folks!

Why?

Because people today are on the job that don't have the qualification to be there.

Example:

Foreman said it is safe to work on this because" it is not hot. " The foreman says this based on the breaker being shut off to the particular circuit. The worker contunues not knowing better and guess what goes in to a 3 phase box in an outside environment and get electrocuted.

Sad thing is ELC owner might not be liable because reasonable protocal was followed.(tbd by a judge)

Well...

Many contractors can and do get away with this till the day they die. Then what?

I am here because I follow the site founders protocol. - my faith in God!


Anyone that is working on the job should be able to determine if they are doing things safely or not. If they cannot do that then I must be present while that person works or that person can work under me by someone that I would trust my own life with this job if I was to work under them.

This work can be lethal or safe based on qualifications to do the job am I not correct? I like to hire or tran qualified persons period!

Hot-Cold Its rhetoric to avoid liablity in my opinion. Why on earth would this even be a topic?

I do not leave anyone alone on the job that cannot derimine whether is is safe of not.

Looking forward to replies.

This post seems a little rambling but, if I read it correctly it is basically saying that working stuff hot is OK if you are somehow qualified? To be blunt, please make sure you express this superior qualification you have if you EVER apply to work at my company so I will know enough to send you down the road. I can't say this in strong enough terms, you are wrong!

Look at the original situation. The person TRIPPED and FELL. Are you somehow qualified to never trip? I can't say never but, I doubt there are many of us who have been in the trade for decades who haven't been shocked. I was shocked as a teenager before I became an electrician.

Believe me, I know this tragically from a personal experience. The one time that an accident results in death, the circumstances usually bear very little difference that a million other minor incidents with one huge exception. circumstances were just ever so slightly different and the DEAD person was one millimeter in the wrong direction or one second early or late.

You last sentence is only correct if it means the person is qualified to determine if the power is off or not off, because that IS the arbiter between safe and unsafe!

I have a reasonably effective first step to prevent our valued employees (every one of them in other words) from being pressure din to a situation where they feel the need to work something hot. I require a written letter from the owner of the building and anyone in between, and I issue one myself with required PPE and precautions on the rare occasion that something must be worked hot. It is amazing how rare that is when the facility has to put it down on paper why their plant is more important than my worker.

I apologize if I am somehow misinterpreting your post and you are not advocating that somehow "real" professionals know how to work things hot.​