Anyone see a problem here

S.Penny

Member
Location
South Carolina
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
There is obviously been a problem with this panel according to the main logs. This panel should be replaced with the main breaker circuit breaker panel whatever the amperage has to be and whatever is to the right of that panel should be fed properly out of your new panel with the proper feeders if it is a sub panel and make sure all your hots neutrals and grounds are correctly sized. Probably not what that owner wants to hear but I would highly recommend it.
Good Luck
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
There is obviously been a problem with this panel according to the main logs. This panel should be replaced with the main breaker circuit breaker panel whatever the amperage has to be and whatever is to the right of that panel should be fed properly out of your new panel with the proper feeders if it is a sub panel and make sure all your hots neutrals and grounds are correctly sized. Probably not what that owner wants to hear but I would highly recommend it.
Good Luck
Without knowing what is upstream of this panel I don't see how we can say categorically it needs to be replaced with a main breaker style panel.

It does seem to have a lot of curious things about it as mentioned by others.
 

JEFF MILLAR

Senior Member
Horrible example of unacceptable installation. White wire insulation termination on the breaker alone, scares me. Not a professional or inspected installation. For sure.
 

RumRunner

Senior Member
Location
SCV Ca, USA
Occupation
Retired EE
Good afternoon went out for a service call and came across this.
85d9da94beeab2a07ea6decde52957e8.jpg


Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Several minor digressions from accepted practices like trimming strands to fit lugs, unidentified neutral, missing main breaker, notwithstanding-- I see no “earth shattering--”flagrant” installation practice not conforming to the usual installation processes.
The LOAD CENTER in this specimen is a normal practice.

Google “MAIN LUGS ONLY” panels
These panels differ from the regular main panels that residential electricians are NOT familiar with.. not often seen in residential installation.

I used to make request for purchase order during my active days in industrial settings.
We had a person in charge of purchasing before the purchase is made for final approval via head of engineering—the engineering manager.
Long story short—excessive red tape for good reason.

Chain of command prevails in big corporations

If someone asks me what the reasons are . . . well you need to get away from working solo. . . start working with a team and the necessary team spirit.
These panels don’t need (depending on application) main breaker and they are common items.

As for “where are the missing neutrals?”
The picture does not seem to tell us (no pun intended) the whole picture.

The left side of the neutral bus is not shown completely.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Several minor digressions from accepted practices like trimming strands to fit lugs, unidentified neutral, missing main breaker, notwithstanding-- I see no “earth shattering--”flagrant” installation practice not conforming to the usual installation processes.
The LOAD CENTER in this specimen is a normal practice.

Google “MAIN LUGS ONLY” panels
These panels differ from the regular main panels that residential electricians are NOT familiar with.. not often seen in residential installation.

I used to make request for purchase order during my active days in industrial settings.
We had a person in charge of purchasing before the purchase is made for final approval via head of engineering—the engineering manager.
Long story short—excessive red tape for good reason.

Chain of command prevails in big corporations

If someone asks me what the reasons are . . . well you need to get away from working solo. . . start working with a team and the necessary team spirit.
These panels don’t need (depending on application) main breaker and they are common items.

As for “where are the missing neutrals?”
The picture does not seem to tell us (no pun intended) the whole picture.

The left side of the neutral bus is not shown completely.
There are 15 single pole breakers in the panel. Do you truly think they are all tucked in behind the wires on the left? Should we start a pole? Because of how close the busses are to the panel side wall, they'd all have to come in from the right on the left side or the left on the right side. Maybe someone sees something I don't?
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
It might be like the old knob and tube days where they ran a "super neutral" and tapped off of it for every 120v circuit! Hahaha
That does sound like a reasonable explanation of the observed wiring. What we need is to see what wires are present at the load/outlet end of one of these circuits.
It looks like there are nowhere near enough neutrals terminated in the panel for the number of circuits controlled.
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer - Power Systems
It might be like the old knob and tube days where they ran a "super neutral" and tapped off of it for every 120v circuit! Hahaha
It looks like single a large conductor, identified white, exiting the bottom right with the majority of the red branch circuits. There is no other conductor of this size that cannot be traced, from a breaker.
 
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