Appliance Garage

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Larry
The requirement for bathroom receptacles to be GFCI protected has no bearing on where it is located within the bathroom.


The requirement for GFCI protection for the countertop receptacle does specify a location within the kitchen.
 
You have a small appliance circuit in your dining room?... or did you mean kitchen?
edit to add: oops this posted to the wrong place and lost part of the text... It originally had: "I wish I had some in my dining room... oh well another project I guess."

1. You can always have MORE than minimum appliance circuits required...
(I've never done a job with only 2)
2. A wall under 24" is not required to have an outlet, but it probably should if there's a counter
 
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Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Pierre C Belarge said:
Larry
The requirement for bathroom receptacles to be GFCI protected has no bearing on where it is located within the bathroom.


The requirement for GFCI protection for the countertop receptacle does specify a location within the kitchen.

It sure does ----(6) Kitchens ? where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces.Is that area under the garage not a countertop surface ?
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
Jim W in Tampa said:
It sure does ----(6) Kitchens ? where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces.Is that area under the garage not a countertop surface ?

In essence it is constructed of countertop material but it is within a built in unit.Not subject to spacing requirements,I use the term spacing requirements and not required receptacles for a reason.Within the appliance garage is seperate from the actual counter top it is a built in unit there for not part of the usable counter space in the kitchen.

Lets jump into a different scenario for a second.A dining room has a built in set of cabinets on a wall.Lets say that there are base cabinets end to end on this wall,does that counter top require receptacles ?????It`s not wall space since occupied by the built in and as we know a built in doesn`t require receptacles no matter how long it is.Is it a good idea to install them there ??? Of course it is we all know it will hold warming trays crock pots etc.Is it required NO !!!!!!!

Bring that same built in into the kitchen and it is a permenant cabinet,now called an appliance garage.Same principal just a different room.
You could have a 20 foot built in china closet in a kitchen and not have to install the first receptacle on that wall.Why not usable wall space.Why woud one built in be any different than another ???? Because it has the bottom constructed of counter top material ????? What if as in many custom kitchens I have seen there are built in tiers that exted from the countertop and up to the top of the uppers.Many have glass doors, some cabinet doors ,some have the same roll up door as many appl. garages have.They have countertop on the bottom.Do these require a receptacle ???I`ll stick with what I said not required to have a receptacle or be gfci protected if they did have one since they don`t serve the usable countertop.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
That's not a good analogy, Allen. A cabinet does not have a "countertop"; it has a "cabinet top." There is a rule about receptacles for countertops, but that rule only applies in the kitchen.

Here again, I've never seen an appliance garage installed in a kitchen, and I've never paid attention to what they look like, when I visit stores that sell kitchen cabinets. So I might be off base. But what I envision is a box with two sides and a top, with no back wall, with no built-in bottom section, and with or without a front door. I envision this thing sitting on the countertop, such that any appliance stored within would, in fact, be sitting on the countertop. It may or may not be secured in place, but it will have one or more receptacles installed in the wall counter space at the back, inside the garage, to allow any appliances stored within to be left plugged in.

So my view is that the requirements that apply to other countertop receptacles will apply (i.e., must be GFCI, and MUST be on one of the SA circuits).

Do I have the wrong image of what these things, these "appliance garages," really are?
 

1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
charlie b said:
That's not a good analogy, Allen. A cabinet does not have a "countertop"; it has a "cabinet top." There is a rule about receptacles for countertops, but that rule only applies in the kitchen.

Here again, I've never seen an appliance garage installed in a kitchen, and I've never paid attention to what they look like, when I visit stores that sell kitchen cabinets. So I might be off base. But what I envision is a box with two sides and a top, with no back wall, with no built-in bottom section, and with or without a front door. I envision this thing sitting on the countertop, such that any appliance stored within would, in fact, be sitting on the countertop. It may or may not be secured in place, but it will have one or more receptacles installed in the wall counter space at the back, inside the garage, to allow any appliances stored within to be left plugged in.

So my view is that the requirements that apply to other countertop receptacles will apply (i.e., must be GFCI, and MUST be on one of the SA circuits).

Do I have the wrong image of what these things, these "appliance garages," really are?

Here is a photo of one type of Appliance Garage. I hope this helps.

 

rcarroll

Senior Member
210.52(C) Countertops: In kithcens AND dining rooms of dwelling units, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accordance with C1 thru C5. So, if there is a countertop in the dining room, receps are required.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
charlie b said:
That's not a good analogy, Allen. A cabinet does not have a "countertop"; it has a "cabinet top." There is a rule about receptacles for countertops, but that rule only applies in the kitchen.

Here again, I've never seen an appliance garage installed in a kitchen, and I've never paid attention to what they look like, when I visit stores that sell kitchen cabinets. So I might be off base. But what I envision is a box with two sides and a top, with no back wall, with no built-in bottom section, and with or without a front door. I envision this thing sitting on the countertop, such that any appliance stored within would, in fact, be sitting on the countertop. It may or may not be secured in place, but it will have one or more receptacles installed in the wall counter space at the back, inside the garage, to allow any appliances stored within to be left plugged in.

So my view is that the requirements that apply to other countertop receptacles will apply (i.e., must be GFCI, and MUST be on one of the SA circuits).

Do I have the wrong image of what these things, these "appliance garages," really are?

You have it right.Why do you think they want outlets within them ? Because they want to just slide them out ready to use.Use where ? On the counter top where else could they be used.Lets get smart here,we all know what will happen so why fight the gfci or the SA circuit.Its nothing more than a way to hide the ugly appliance.Its use and place of use never changed.Same hazards are still there.
 
appliance garage

appliance garage

absolutly it should be Gfi protected. What kind of appliences do you think people use in a kitchen or dinning room. Blenders, food processors, coffee makers etc and all of these appliances have liquid in them. Hence the mighty Gfi.
 

JohnJ0906

Senior Member
Location
Baltimore, MD
Captkirk360 said:
absolutly it should be Gfi protected. What kind of appliences do you think people use in a kitchen or dinning room. Blenders, food processors, coffee makers etc and all of these appliances have liquid in them. Hence the mighty Gfi.
Logical, Captain :D
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
OK just where am i thinking wrong ? That SA circuit is already gfci protected,only a few feet away from the last SA and there is no limit as to how many receptacles can be on it.So why would we not tap into that SA circuit ??????????
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I consider garage receptacles to be SA receptacles, to require GFCI protection, and can either share other SA circuits or have their own. I usually give them two duplexes (or a "quad").

My only contention is that a garage, or any other cabinetry that interrupts the countertop-wall line, separates the countertop space as far as required receptacle locating is concerned.

To me, this is akin to the way a sink or major appliance divides counters, peninsulas, and islands into separate surface spaces.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
The difference, Larry, is that an applicance garage does not take up all of the counter space, from the back wall to the front edge of the counter. A sink or major appliance would take up most, if not all, of that space. So it would not seem, to me at least, that the appliance garage separates the counter into two independent counter wall spaces.
 

volt102

Senior Member
Location
New Hampshire
After all said and done(I Think) & (For What It Is Worth)

The original question, would be permitted, I think that Charlie Beck quickly summed it up in a nutshell in the second response. That is, it can but you don't get credit for it.

I would say that when 210.52(B)(1) States

Receptacle Outlets Served In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

The appliance garage is covered by simply talking about it 210.52(C)(5), mentioning its name. Isn't that covered?

The receptacle in the 22" wall in the dinning room on a SABC, however, would be prohibited using the same logic, it doesn't cover walls that are under 24"....

Jim
New Hampshire
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
charlie b said:
The difference, Larry, is that an applicance garage does not take up all of the counter space, from the back wall to the front edge of the counter. A sink or major appliance would take up most, if not all, of that space. So it would not seem, to me at least, that the appliance garage separates the counter into two independent counter wall spaces.

Charlie a sink doesn`t take up all the counter top depth either,nor does a cook top.Many appliance garages take up the same depth as these items.Sometimes more in actual measurments.I stand an appliance garage DOESN`T require a receptacle at all.Does it require it to be GFCI protected if it doesn`t serve the counter top.The NEC has an exception that an appliance garage is exempt from a required receptacle and if exempt from a required rexeptacle than all it has to be to be code compliant is on a 20 amp circuit since within the confins of a kitchen.Now do I think it shouldn`t be GFCI protected ????? Well that doesn`t make a differece.The situation is is it required to be gfci protected and is a receptacle actually required to be installed at all.
 

JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
volt102 said:
The receptacle in the 22" wall in the dinning room on a SABC, however, would be prohibited using the same logic, it doesn't cover walls that are under 24"....

Jim
New Hampshire

I disagree. You're talking about a receptacle, on a wall. Therefore, it's a wall receptacle. The NEC does not recognize a 22" wall for spacing/placement requirements, but it does not ignore receptacles that might be placed on the wall. And as you pointed out:

210.52(B)(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

Just my opinion, for what its worth. And thats not much...

John
 

volt102

Senior Member
Location
New Hampshire
John,

I think that you need to bold one more word.

210.52(B)(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

Covered, or Uncovered!

Jim
New Hampshire
 
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