Apprentice Supervision

[Minuteman]

AHJ Supplement:

An Apprentice Wireman shall work under the direct and personal supervision of a Journeyman Wireman or Electrical Contractor. No more than two Apprentice Wireman shall work under the supervision of a single Journeyman Wireman or Electrical Contractor on any electrical installation. Each Apprentice Wireman shall possess a valid registration with the State licensing service.

I was on a job with a 3rd year cub, when I needed to run look at a job to bid and was going to pick up some supplies. I lined out the guy and left. I was gone about an hour when he called and said that an inspector was there to inspect part of the project and was asking for me. I said that I would be right there, and was there in less than 10 minutes. The inspector is new to inspecting, and is a former EC "out of retirement". He chews me out real good, but nothing has come of it. No fine, nothing.

This came up one before, while I was a Foreman on a large building. The skilled apprentices might be on a floor by themselves, and their JW on another floor. But this time, it was an over zealous Steward that made a ruckus about supervision and the AHJ was brought in. At that time, it was determined that "direct and personnel" would included Nextel or Cell Phone contact as long as the JW dropped in at the beginning and end of the shift.

Does an apprentice require side-by-side supervision, or can you leave them for a while and check up on them latter?

 

[NolaTigaBait]

hook em' horns

 

[iwire]

It is up to each area.

Where I am I can not leave an apprentice on a job without a licensed guy and it's no more than one apprentice per licensed guy.

I think it is CT that requires in sight or earshot.

 

[Minuteman]

hook em' horns

Yeah right.

 

[celtic]

Does an apprentice require side-by-side supervision, or can you leave them for a while and check up on them latter?

IMHO, that depends on 2 factors:
- Supervision's ability to communicate
- Apprentice's ability to comprehend

I've had 2nd yr kids who could be left unattended all day....and 5th yr kids that needed constant baby-sitting.

 

[tonyou812]

totally agree (reluctantly:wink with Celtic. Some guys are responsible enough to move on to something else if they get stuck on something, some people just shut down or do it wrong anyway.

 

[Minuteman]

I've had 2nd yr kids who could be left unattended all day....and 5th yr kids that needed constant baby-sitting.

So, do you leave a responceable 2nd year alone sometimes?

 

[celtic]

So, do you leave a responceable 2nd year alone sometimes?

Yes I do.....I sometimes have to hold the 5th year kids hand :roll:

 

[iwire]

Yes I do.....I sometimes have to hold the 5th year kids hand :roll:

What do NJ licensing rules require?

 

[charlie b]

If I wanted to work under my Electrician Trainee license (can't at the moment, because it's currently in ?expired? status, since I haven?t had 16 hours of classroom training yet ), the Journeyman would have to provide 100% supervision, and could only have one trainee. An inspector recently told me that if they come across a trainee with no Journeyman at the site, they will call the Journeyman on the cell phone. If that person tries to say that they just left a few minutes ago to go get something from the supply shop or something, but they cannot describe exactly what tasks the trainee is engaged in performing, they lower the boom.

 

[djcrzysounds@yahoo.com]

IMHO, that depends on 2 factors:
- Supervision's ability to communicate
- Apprentice's ability to comprehend

I've had 2nd yr kids who could be left unattended all day....and 5th yr kids that needed constant baby-sitting.

I'm one of those 2nd years... haha... Atleast I know I'm not the only one in a position in which I can be left alone and asked to check the work of 4th and 5th yrs.

 

[jrannis]

Too bad for us..........
In Florida if you work for a State certified contractor nobody has to have a license.
If you are a Resistered contractor you abide by your Countys rules.

 

[electricalperson]

as far as im concerned i wouldnt leave an apprentice alone without checking his work. it doesnt matter how many years of experience he has he is still an apprentice and his work is our responsibility

 

[Minuteman]

So, let's say you hand a kid a sharp shooter. You tell him how deep and mark point A and point B. You run off to grab Mickey D's for both of you and come right back. Violation? What if there is a bundle of PVC, 90's, and glue on site?

 

[celtic]

What do NJ licensing rules require?

That I hold EC credentials....everyone under me/my license number is my responsibility.

There is no JW to helper ratio.

 

[celtic]

So, let's say you hand a kid a sharp shooter. You tell him how deep and mark point A and point B. You run off to grab Mickey D's for both of you and come right back. Violation? What if there is a bundle of PVC, 90's, and glue on site?

For me in NJ - no violation....and that kid better be done with the bundle by the time I get back or the next time we meet he'll be handing me my burger and change



Way back when....'86, maybe '87?...the first EC I worked for sent me about 50 miles south to wire a restaurant. I was solo with less than a year under my belt.
Not to blow my horn, but we [that means me] failed every single inspection and 1/2 the re-inspections.:grin:

The problem here was....the guys I was teamed up would not really show me anything - point and shoot and off I go to do it wrong, because no one told me otherwise.
The men he had had in his employment had all bailed on him...but not before many of his bids were accepted by the clients.

Lack of communications.


The kid would have to be stellar for me leave him unattended....I know what can happen ~ I did it!

 

[Minuteman]

For me in NJ - no violation....and that kid better be done with the bundle by the time I get back or the next time we meet he'll be handing me my burger and change


...The kid would have to be stellar for me leave him unattended....I know what can happen ~ I did it!

Best ditch digger in town!

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

A jurisdiction (the whole county) in one of my areas recently passed a law effective Jan 1, 09. It states that apprentices cannot be left on the job by themselves. The contractors had 1 year to register their journeymen. Some did and some did not. This means as of Jan 1, 09 the non registered Jmen will need to take a test or be qualified as apprentices...which means they cannot be left alone (the test is offered 5 times a year). So much for some thinking they will beat the system. Fines and job stopages will occur and the County is serious about policing this - it equates to money in their pockets.

I will let you know how it pans out as the New Year takes it turn.

 

[tonyou812]

I dont agree with that. Why do you need the extra regulation? the job ultimately has to get inspected anyway so why does it matter in how you get there? I know plenty of guys that can plug out a house or install lights on their own. Or even do some pipe work. It is my responsibility to make sure that the work , that is under my license to make sure its good and to code. Why does the state or city need to get involved in my management of my jobs?

 

[iwire]

I am baffled, all three states I have a license in require a licensed person on the job with the apprentice.

I am surprised this is unusual.