Apprentice Supervision

[Bill Ruffner]

Myself I was wiring apts to code with 6 months in the trade.QUOTE]

I'm not tooting my own horn. Just relaying the facts:

I worked for a large residential contractor in the Chicago area. We only did large residential developments. We had about 180 union electricians working for us at the time. After my first year of apprenticeship, I was running two projects for my employer. They were both townhouse projects within a few miles of each other. The union didn't have a problem with it as long as I was receiving Foreman wages. At first some of the Journeymen had an attitude but they got over it or moved on.

When I made the decision to become an electrician, I was a 32 year old corporate puke. I was able to bring some experience to the table that my contractor saw as being beneficial to running work.

Everyone has unique qualifications and an employer should be able to utilize those qualifications in the pursuit of running a successful business that can continue to provide wages and taxes to the community.

 

[iwire]

Everyone has unique qualifications and an employer should be able to utilize those qualifications in the pursuit of running a successful business that can continue to provide wages and taxes to the community.

And I don't think the fox should be put in charge of the hen house. :smile:

Bid the job expecting to place licensed persons on the job and then place licensed persons on the job. Of course your competition should be doing this as well.

 

[Bill Ruffner]

And I don't think the fox should be put in charge of the hen house. :smile:

Bid the job expecting to place licensed persons on the job and then place licensed persons on the job. Of course your competition should be doing this as well.

I agree. If a licensed person is required, then you have to abide by the rules.

In Illinois, the employees are not licensed, just the electrical contractor.

 

[celtic]

If a contractor has an employee that is capable of doing the task at hand, why should anyone have the right to say otherwise? Why shouldn't he be allowed to make the decisions regarding who is qualified and who is not?

And I don't think the fox should be put in charge of the hen house. :smile:

I tend to agree with iwire here.

Many times the EC - in an effort to save/make money - will "determine" an apprentice is capable/qualified:roll:

After all, it's his money and reputation that's at stake.

There is a little bit more at stake than just the EC's money and reputation ~ the end users safety.

 

[Bill Ruffner]

I tend to agree with iwire here.

Many times the EC - in an effort to save/make money - will "determine" an apprentice is capable/qualified:roll:



There is a little bit more at stake than just the EC's money and reputation ~ the end users safety.

I hear what you're saying. I just don't like big government bureaucracy.

I just can't handle the thought of some government agency telling me that I can't let a qualified, second year residential apprentice, plug and switch a house by himself.

To me, that's just way too much big brother putting their nose where it doesn't belong.

 

[~Shado~]

In Colorado the ratio is 1 license to 3 apprentices. Our licenses are good statewide. However I just found out that an RW license is only good for 1-4 family dwellings...apartments need a JW. Back when I first started a RW could handle all resi work under 2 or 3 stories. Now its changed....interesting.

Rules are odd...what is the quantifying number of recepts, switches, luminares, installed to be considered qualified for trim?
Plan, layout, etc...I understand more time required.

Greg Swartz mentioned in other post that he finally got release of apprentice from another EC....I haven't been able to find ruling/reasoning for this....if an EC can only offer PT work then the apprentice is stuck? Seems very unfair. I will keep serching for this answer since I was going to hire my nephew to work PT for me while he worked FT for other EC. I understand other EC possible being not happy and haveing it as a company policy...but state ruling?

 

[Minuteman]

Sure it's a bureaucracy, but I would say that most places "sell" the need to licence trades based upon perceived public safety. And that they want to the qualifier rather than the Contractor declaring who is qualified. Therefore they would come to the conclusion that an unlicensed tradesman is unsafe.

That's not quite what my Original Post was about, and that's okay. Not the first thread to drift off topic. But there is a difference in side-by-side supervision and sending a cub to do a JIW job. If nothing else, from a liability stand point.

 

[iaov]

Wi has recently changed the rules here. Going to a meeting about these changes on the 9th of Dec. Don't know all the details now but basicaly they want to stop all work unless it is supervised by a Certified Master.

 

[khixxx]

I am with some that say research your local jurisdiction and the requirements of the job. Laws are laws no matter how stupid they seem.

On a PW job we had a few apprentices wiring up a panel without supervision. The inspector questioned them and the company had to back pay those guys JW wages for the time they spent on the job. I know the one kid got $5k.

Again I am all for regulation but sometimes it's just a joke.

 

[khixxx]

I hear what you're saying. I just don't like big government bureaucracy.

I just can't handle the thought of some government agency telling me that I can't let a qualified, second year residential apprentice, plug and switch a house by himself.

To me, that's just way too much big brother putting their nose where it doesn't belong.

Bill for every guy like you their are 100 guys that think a turd is qualified to wire a panel. This is why we have regulations to protect the interest of others, and things are not abused. Big brother will always be there, but it's up to us to say who big brother will be

 

[tonyou812]

So in NJ you have to be licensed to get a journey mans card? What would be the benifit for me to get a card? if any? I didnt even know that they existed in NJ

 

[celtic]

Multiple replies

Multiple replies

That's not quite what my Original Post was about, and that's okay. Not the first thread to drift off topic. But there is a difference in side-by-side supervision and sending a cub to do a JIW job. If nothing else, from a liability stand point.

I agree with you.

************

So in NJ you have to be licensed to get a journey mans card?

No.
You can have one, the other or both.
Only 1 actually allows you pull permits....the other one...

What would be the benifit for me to get a card? if any?

...you almost, but not quite, get a warm and fuzzy feeling for helping the State out in these trying fiscal times.
After having my card appraised on the antiques roadshow in the year 2058, I'm hoped that I can sell it on eBay for a huge profit and retire comfortably in Ireland [or Sicily....depending on the wife's mood]

I didnt even know that they existed in NJ

They do....so does the Jersey Devil....few have seen either in real life.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

....Bid the job expecting to place licensed persons on the job and then place licensed persons on the job. Of course your competition should be doing this as well.

If these will be the rules, then we need the AHJ to enforce them to keep the playing field level.