Aprently 90.1(C) is just a waste of ink.

Merry Christmas
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raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
I think there is one big difference: In many areas (I'd venture to say "most"), an engineer is required to be involved in the design of a commercial space, and is not required to be involved in the design of a residential space. It does kind of make sense to have some design mandates for residential, to directly protect people from using extension cords.

How many times do you have the fire marshal over for tea, you know? In a public space, if there's a safety concern, there's a bunch more eyes on it.

Just spitballing here... ;)

Agreed, and would like to add that a home is very likely to have quite a few owners and most of the time when a home is sold the home is not remodeled nearly as extensively as a commercial space would be to suit the new owners needs.

Chris
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Some things are good ideas, but should be left to the discretion of the designer and the owner.

One could make a pretty good argument though, that a conference room with extension cords running all over the place is a tripping hazard.
 

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
Comment on Affirmative:
WEBER, R.: Once again, the panel has made the correct decision on
accepting this proposal regarding the need for a listed floor receptacle in
meeting rooms located in office buildings and hotel/motels to meet the needs
of today?s IT system requirements and use. The panel may need to look at the room size and be flexible on the most efficient location for the listed floor receptacle....but it should be made available and save the daisy chaining of power cord strips that are now used because of the lack of availability of a power connection point in the meeting room space.

So now those morons are gonna personally come and inspect every potential installation to determine the best location? :roll:

petersonra said:
Some things are good ideas, but should be left to the discretion of the designer and the owner.

Exactly.

petersonra said:
One could make a pretty good argument though, that a conference room with extension cords running all over the place is a tripping hazard.

One could also argue that there aren't that many conference rooms in that state of being.
 

cschmid

Senior Member
you are correct when saying that commercial is regulated all ready and residential is not. Yet residential is becoming more regulated every year and the NEC is a safety code not a design code. So I do not agree with the design aspect of the code and I also do not agree with code minimum bids because again we are using the NEC as a design manual and it was never meant for that.
 

pfalcon

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
I think its a good idea, but does it belong in the code? I don't know ... how does this differ from receptacles should be located every 6 (or whatever) feet along the wall?

Remember that NFPA in large part is tied to the insurance companies not wanting to pay out on fires. Commercial rates are more flexible than residential rates of insurance.

Having said that; It's time for the 800+ NEC to be divided up to avoid things like this in the future. Article 670 for example should be reduced to: Follow NFPA79. Things that skirt design issues should be moved into a separate document (National Electrical Design Code?). Move outlet locations, TR's, and other people considerations into the NECD while leaving wiring practices in the NEC.

The NECD being smaller could then spend more ink being precise about location; maybe even using graphics. Ground side up? Outlets in a bath stall? TR's in homes? TR's in businesses? Floor outlets in meeting rooms?

An NECD would even be easier to follow for such things since the articles would be location based. Imagine Chapter 3 Required Kitchen Circuits. The NECD would not tell you how to wire it, just where and how many are required.

Flexibility in state codes would be helped also. Instead of trying to rewrite the AFCI section or repeal it wholesale, a state could strike AFCI from specific rooms. It would allow them to phase in more gradually and clearly than modifying the NEC requirements.

Do we really need the NEC to tell us to wire outlets every six feet? Or should it be simplified to tell us how to wire outlets while an NECD tells us where to put them?

A poll for that might be nice:
A) Add the NECD C) I don't know E) Forget the NECD
B & D for half-hearted commitments. :grin:
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Right now, they have a mandate to exclude design issues and occasionally they ignore it. I think we'd have a whole new world contructed of pain if they drafted a design manual for AHJs to adopt.
 
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