Arc-Fault

[mclassen]

210.12B Arc-Fault breakers are required for dining room receptacles but not for kitchen receptacles. However according to 210.52B(1) Dining room receptacles are required to be served from the small appliance branch circuits. So in order to meet this requirement and stay competitiveI would need to run a separate 20a, arc-fault protected branch circuit to the dining room receptacles, is that correct? :-?My local jurisdiction just adopted 2008 NEC Jan 1.

 

[jwjrw]

You can come off the SA circuits but you do not have to. Pull seperate dining room circuits and rock on..
If you dont your kitchen outlets will be arc and gfi which is legal also.

 

[ceb58]

210.12B Arc-Fault breakers are required for dining room receptacles but not for kitchen receptacles. However according to 210.52B(1) Dining room receptacles are required to be served from the small appliance branch circuits. So in order to meet this requirement and stay competitiveI would need to run a separate 20a, arc-fault protected branch circuit to the dining room receptacles, is that correct? :-?My local jurisdiction just adopted 2008 NEC Jan 1.

Welcome to 2008. IMO the outlets in a dinning room that are feed from the sabc's are not requried to be AFCI'ed. But any other circ. in the dinning room would be requried to be AFCI'ed. Such as lighting or any other outlets that did not originate from the sabc's.

 

[mclassen]

Welcome to 2008. IMO the outlets in a dinning room that are feed from the sabc's are not requried to be AFCI'ed. But any other circ. in the dinning room would be requried to be AFCI'ed. Such as lighting or any other outlets that did not originate from the sabc's.

210.12B ALL circuits supplying outlets in .....dining rooms....????

 

[480sparky]

Welcome to 2008. IMO the outlets in a dinning room that are feed from the sabc's are not requried to be AFCI'ed. But any other circ. in the dinning room would be requried to be AFCI'ed. Such as lighting or any other outlets that did not originate from the sabc's.

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.

(B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

Whether or not it's fed from an SABC or not, it's required to AFCId. No exceptions.

 

[hillbilly1]

Whats funny too, is it calls for "combination" arc fault breakers, I'm doing a remodel in the city of Atlanta, so I knew this would be strictly enforced. I ordered combination Arc fault breakers, and the supply house sent regular old style Arc fault breakers. Called our inside rep, and he did not even know they made a combination Arc fault breaker, or even what it was. Had to go down to the orange box to get them. Thats a sad statement on supply houses.

 

[mclassen]

One more question regarding SABC. Can I put the microwave/Hood combo receptacle on one of the SABC? Microwave/Hood combos are permanently mounted above a range or cooktop and are cord & plug connected to a receptacle in the upper cabinet. I have always believed this was a violation but 210.52B3 makes me wonder. I guess the disposer/diswasher receptacle would fall in this same category

 

[cpal]

most BI I've seen require a seperate BC per mfg instructions.

 

[erickench]

I think it's possible to have a branch circuit with an AFCI circuit breaker and GFCI receptacles.:roll: However GFCI's are only required for all 15A and 20A, 125 volt receptacles that serve countertop surfaces that would be found in a kitchen and not in a dining room.

 

[480sparky]

I think it's possible to have a branch circuit with an AFCI circuit breaker and GFCI receptacles.:roll:

Not only possible, but commonly done.

 

[jwjrw]

One more question regarding SABC. Can I put the microwave/Hood combo receptacle on one of the SABC? Microwave/Hood combos are permanently mounted above a range or cooktop and are cord & plug connected to a receptacle in the upper cabinet. I have always believed this was a violation but 210.52B3 makes me wonder. I guess the disposer/diswasher receptacle would fall in this same category

A microwave that is permanetly attached shall have a dedicated circuit....
A countertop microwave shall be permitted to use one of the SA circuits....
Im looking for the exact art. Sparky help me out...

 

[iwire]

A microwave that is permanetly attached shall have a dedicated circuit....

Im looking for the exact art.

It might be hard to find that code section. :grin:

 

[jwjrw]

It might be hard to find that code section. :grin:

I couldnt find it but as always I saw it on a MH drawing or in an EC&M article.
I dont think Im thinking of the definition of a kitchen. I saw it somewhere
but I cant back it up with a reference...

 

[ty]

It might be hard to find that code section. :grin:

210.52(B)(1),(2),and(3), and 210.52(C)(5).

If it sits on the countertop and is plugged in, can be on SABC.
If it is permanently installed above the stove, cannot be on SABC.

 

[iwire]

210.52(B)(1),(2),and(3), and 210.52(C)(5).

If it sits on the countertop and is plugged in, can be on SABC.
If it is permanently installed above the stove, cannot be on SABC.

No kidding, again thanks for the Article 210 primer. :grin:

Now can you show me where the NEC says this? :grin:

A microwave that is permanetly attached shall have a dedicated circuit....

It may say it in the instructions but not in the NEC.

 

[kwired]

The dining room receptacles are SABC.

(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets.

 

[iwire]

The dining room receptacles are SABC.

They sure are and they still need AFCI protection.

 

[jwjrw]

I still want to know where I read if its permanetly attached it must be dedicated.
Thinking it must be installation instructions

 

[kwired]

They sure are and they still need AFCI protection.

Yes they do I guess I was trying to point out to those that thought if you put them on with the kitchen SABC they will not need AFCI. I think they are misunderstanding a couple things. 1 SABC requirements, 2 AFCI requirements.

 

[iwire]

I still want to know where I read if its permanetly attached it must be dedicated.
Thinking it must be installation instructions

I think there is a good chance the instructions say that, of course they probably say that for counter top models as well.

There is also an odd new section of code that I believe requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit for a cord and plug connected hood fan unit above a range. (Sorry, My 2008 is at the office)