arcing sounds in receptacle

Status
Not open for further replies.
76nemo said:
Are you saying YOU can hear arcing sounds or the HO's can? If you can, and have good worry, I'd be pulling the conductor off of the breaker until you figure that out. You haven't given too many more details to this:-?
Click to expand...

The home owner has heard it. She said it happened last year and had another electrician come out to try to solve it but couldnt. She said it just started again as the temperatures are starting to warm up. In the winter it didnt do it she said.
 
codeunderstanding said:
The home owner has heard it. She said it happened last year and had another electrician come out to try to solve it but couldnt. She said it just started again as the temperatures are starting to warm up. In the winter it didnt do it she said.
Click to expand...

Maybe she's single and lonely? Don't edit, that's a clean joke:wink: Let's leave it there.
 
if the megger reading doesnt show a problem then my opinion is that there is no problem. if all else fails you could run new cables to that receptacle and kill the conductors that are in the box if she still hears it.
 
The home owner has heard it. She said it happened last year and had another electrician come out to try to solve it but couldnt. She said it just started again as the temperatures are starting to warm up. In the winter it didnt do it she said.
Click to expand...

Yes, Watson we now have a clue! Was this recp. on a outside wall? What is the siding on house? Was the sun directly on this wall when you heard the noise
 
codeunderstanding said:
No she said it was coming from other parts of the house as well. Some louder in some areas. Maybe its something else other than electrical related.
Click to expand...

So where would you place a single AFCI? No one mentioned the possibility of shared neutrals in a house you haven't mapped out.
 
76nemo said:
So where would you place a single AFCI? No one mentioned the possibility of shared neutrals in a house you haven't mapped out.
Click to expand...

I think what I will do is trace out what circuit its on and shut off the other breaker if its a shared neutral.
 
is the electrical panel in the area of the crackling noise, why i asked is i had the identical problem yesterday, the panel was 5 feet from receptacle that was making the crackling noise, turned out to be coming from the panel, bad connection from where the breaker connects to the alum buss, & from the looks of it, it had been going on for a while. just another area to look at for possible problems.
 
I would have her turn the main breaker off next time she hears it.If it goes away you need to cut some drywall.And if noise stays you might still want to cut drywall.While patching isnt cheap it beats burning down the place.Should it turn out to be bugs she might be facing damaged wires.Be kind if you cut drywall and stay away from base and outlets,save the piece for patch guy so he can make a hot patch.She should know if she bug problems and you likely would seen dirt in the box.
 
A real arc will make noise on an AM radio; it will be all over the AM band. And TV's, too.
 
I don't know

I don't know

. . .how to model an arc, but the people who make the Ideal tester #61-165 believe that they do.

They slap a 120 amp load across the line up to ~10 times, each pulse up to ~8 mS, for up to ~10 half cycles of 60 Hz AC (80 mS). If I had the help of UL1436 I might have been able to do it, too.

Assuming a half-ohm source impedance and a 120 v source, if you set your scope to display a dozen or so AC cycles, on the peak of each cycle during the arcing you should see a pulse going toward zero such that the peak voltage drops about 60 volts.

I guess it will look like a ragged waveform, but it means arcing.
 
langjahr@comcast.net said:
. . .how to model an arc, but the people who make the Ideal tester #61-165 believe that they do.
Click to expand...

It seems you are assuming.

There is no such device on the market as an "AFCI Tester" I know you will see devices marketed that way but that is the marketing people stretching the truth.

The 61-165 is an "AFCI Indicator" not a "Tester".

If it fails to trip an AFCI it means nothing, the only UL recognized test is the test button on the front of the AFCI breaker.

Each company has it's own way of detecting an arc so there can be no universal tester on the market at this time.

Please check out this link

AFCI Testers—Not Really

Here is some info right from the instructions


CAUTION: AFCIs recognize characteristics unique to arcing, and AFCI testers produce characteristics that mimic some forms of arcing. Because of this, the tester may give a false indication that the AFCI is not functioning properly. If this occurs, recheck the operation of the AFCI using the test and reset buttons. The AFCI’s test button function should demonstrate proper operation.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
If it fails to trip an AFCI

If it fails to trip an AFCI

False positives and false negatives \/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_positive

Lie detectors and pregnancy tests have them also.
Sounds like these tester people are more concerned with false negatives.

So, the best you can do is have some likelihood of being right about an AFCI with one of these testers, I hope more than 50%.
And to even know the likelihood you need to know the specificity and sensitivity of the test/check. We're gettin' into some math, here.

What are the consequences of failing a good AFCI? Customer pays!
How 'bout passing a bad AFCI? You get called back!

I'm wondering if someone makes a device that really does arc, in a repeatable fashion; then we don't need mimics. Something like a neon bulb, maybe with some other gas inside.
It also brings up the question: how do they test the AFCIs in the factory that makes them? A precisely-built calibrating arc?
There are a lot of things traceable to NIST but I'm not sure arcs are one of them.
That's another day and another e-mail. . .
 
langjahr@comcast.net said:
False positives and false negatives \/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_positive

Lie detectors and pregnancy tests have them also.
Sounds like these tester people are more concerned with false negatives.

So, the best you can do is have some likelihood of being right about an AFCI with one of these testers, I hope more than 50%.
And to even know the likelihood you need to know the specificity and sensitivity of the test/check. We're gettin' into some math, here.

What are the consequences of failing a good AFCI? Customer pays!
How 'bout passing a bad AFCI? You get called back!

I'm wondering if someone makes a device that really does arc, in a repeatable fashion; then we don't need mimics. Something like a neon bulb, maybe with some other gas inside.
It also brings up the question: how do they test the AFCIs in the factory that makes them? A precisely-built calibrating arc?
There are a lot of things traceable to NIST but I'm not sure arcs are one of them.
That's another day and another e-mail. . .
Click to expand...
Try asking a manufacturer about the specs of a GFCI let alone a AFCI!:rolleyes: You'd be lucky to get one reply.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top