Are arc fault breakers a "solution" for houses with aluminum wiring?

Location
Missouri
Occupation
Electrician
I know they don't fix the actual problems inherent to many existing aluminum installations, but ultimately the reason why aluminum is a hazard is due to the arcing caused by poor connections over time, thus an arc fault breaker should remove the hazard of a poor aluminum installation...right?

For a customer's insurance purposes, would having all arc fault breakers be sufficient for the purposes of an aluminum remediation without having to go through and manually rectify every single electrical connection?
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
What I recommend to the homeowner is to have every switch and receptacle pulled out of the box and every screw tightened. The contact area would then better than when new due to the flattened wires.

As for insurance, you would have to make a cogent argument and see if they'd accept it. I'm dubious. Plus, AFCIs come with their own cans of worms, and you may not be able to use them on every circuit.
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
What I recommend to the homeowner is to have every switch and receptacle pulled out of the box and every screw tightened.
Many panel flippers don't enter occupancies.

Thats why AFCI's detect unqualified persons better than anything else.
an arc fault breaker should remove the hazard of a poor aluminum installation...right?
Any device that can trip on dilapidated wiring, poor workmanship, listing violations, or hack jobs, should disqualify persons that can't abate hazards by listed means.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
For a customer's insurance purposes, would having all arc fault breakers be *sufficient* for the purposes of an aluminum remediation without having to go through and manually rectify every single electrical connection?

Definitely not *sufficient*, regardless of where you come down on whether they would help at all.

*If* they do detect an issue, someone would still have to fix that issue.

If they don't detect issues, then potentially you'd be selling them under a fraudulent claim that they would. Be careful what you claim to a client.
 
Location
Missouri
Occupation
Electrician
AFCIs do not detect glowing connections. They will be utterly worthless.
Is that not the puropse of the thermal magnetic functions of the breakers themselves? The arc fault detection is supposed to trip when detecting arc faults-which are the signature symptom of loose connections.

In combination, should not an arc fault breaker at least theoretically protect an aluminum wired home in the event of either arcing between loose connections and thermal overload?
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
See my post #9.

It is correct that AFCIs are not supposed to detect glowing connections. Nor could such a device really be designed for a circuit that's also supposed to power a resistive heater. That's a strawman and a red herring here.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
The current flow
Is that not the puropse of the thermal magnetic functions of the breakers themselves? The arc fault detection is supposed to trip when detecting arc faults-which are the signature symptom of loose connections.

In combination, should not an arc fault breaker at least theoretically protect an aluminum wired home in the event of either arcing between loose connections and thermal overload?

in glowing connections can be extremely small. Micro IIRC.

Theoretically protect against something it can't detect? Nope.

Thermal as in over current? Save the money with a standard breaker.
 
Location
Missouri
Occupation
Electrician
See my post #9.

It is correct that AFCIs are not supposed to detect glowing connections. Nor could such a device really be designed for a circuit that's also supposed to power a resistive heater. That's a strawman and a red herring here.

"In practice, virtually all solid or liquid substances start to glow around 798 K (525 °C; 977 °F), with a mildly dull red color, whether or not a chemical reaction takes place that produces light as a result of an exothermic process."

Per UL489:

The acceptable operating temperature of a circuit breaker is defined by UL in the UL489 standard (June 2011), which is listed below.

  • Terminations for standard rated breakers: UL 489 Paragraph 7.1.4.2.2 says the temperature rise on a wiring terminal at a point to which the insulation of a wire is brought up as in actual service shall not exceed 50°C (122°F).
  • Terminations for 100% rated breakers: UL489 Paragraph 7.1.4.3.3 says the temperature rise on the termination shall not exceed 60°C (140°F).
  • Handles, knobs, and other user surfaces: UL489 Paragraph 7.1.4.1.6 says the maximum temperature on handles, knobs, and other surfaces subject to user contact during normal operation shall not exceed 60°C (140°F) on metallic and 85°C (185°F) on nonmetallic surfaces.
I admit that I have not personally encountered red hot wire before, so I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say about glowing connections. Heat conduction along the length of a wire is theoretically even, with splices being hotter by nature of not maintaining the properties of a continuously manufactured wire.

Regardless of real world physics, the overheating of any given connection would make it's way along the length of any intact wire in relatively short order due to thermal conduction. It doesn't matter whether it's supplying a resistive heater because our job is to size the overcurrent protection for such applications based on the resistive heat source in question.

A faulty connection providing current/resistance beyond what is expected for the appliance should still be caught by the thermal magnetic capacities of the circuit breaker-which are rated to trip at heat levels FAR lower than the heat it takes to make aluminum literally glow.

As someone else said, it may not fix the actual problem in the installation but I do not understand how a breaker which is rated to trip at all of: high heat thresholds, short circuiting, and arcing conditions would not be suitable as a hazard safeguard for a residential aluminum installation.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Arcs occur during momentarily closed or open connections. They may follow the frequency of the AC waveform when the resistance of a fault is just right. That is what AFCIs are supposed to detect and protect against. Such arcs are generally assumed to occur due to accidental damage to wiring. Stereotypical examples would a homeowner putting a nail for a picture-frame hanger into NM inside a wall, or something heavy crushing an extension cord. Such examples are not from installation error or inadequate materials.

A 'glowing connection', as I take it, is a connection that heats up due to either components being used at higher current than rated for, or because components that were originally fine are longer able to carry rated current due to corrosion, old age, loss of proper torquing, etc. I understand older small-gauge aluminum wiring to be more prone to the latter than copper. The key point here is that such connections may get really hot without ever opening the circuit. They therefore do not arc. Current remains flowing smoothly in the circuit, just like it does in the resistance heating element of a designed heater. It's theoretically impossible for any circuit breaker at the branch circuit origin to be designed to detect such a problem. No manufacturer makes any claim that AFCIs detect such problems. (If the distance is short enough, the heat might conduct through the wire to the breaker enough to trip the breaker thermal element below the rated ampacity, but this would be a lucky fluke.)

So, to the extent that older small gauge aluminum wiring might be more prone to either:
- loose connections that arc
or
- compromised 'glowing' connections that heat up without arcing due to too much resistance
...then AFCIs might detect the former, if they work properly, which many people doubt. If they do, you will end up back at the customers house checking all the connections and giving them a bid to replace the wiring. Which if you're being diligent, maybe you should do in the first place.
And AFCIs will not detect the latter, because they are not even supposed to. And if something catches fire and someone determines that it was from a glowing connection which you claimed that AFCIs would detect, you could be liable for fraud and you'd better hope the client's insurance company doesn't have an expert who figures it out.

I won't try to speak to how much increased danger there actually is from old small-guage aluminum wiring. I'm just saying that you should not sell anyone AFCIs as eliminating that risk. AFCIs may provide a measure of additional protection, if they work as advertised (which many doubt). That's all you can say. Whatever risk there is, a lot of it is still there.
 
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