Are you ready for POE lighting?

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
yea and we know how those IT guys follow wire size and watts , they'll be overloading stuff and melting things all over the place.
The NEC will be placing arc fault devices and new codes. :sick:
 

KaBoom!

Inactive, Email Never Verified
I don’t see it...

As lights get more efficient, we are able to daisy chain more and more on each 120 or 277v circuit, which makes wiring easy and straight forward. Who wants thousands of extra runs of network cable to run and terminate?

Any of the benefits of having the lights connected to the network can also be had using currently wireless technology. My niece was so happy to show me how she can control the brightness and color of her bedroom light with her iPhone :D:lol:
 

zbang

Senior Member
Now that you mention it.....

I worked for Redwood Systems before CommScope bought them (8-9 years ago?). LED fixtures powered over CAT5 (or any wire, really), PWM dimming, network control, daylight harvesting, motion detection with "follow me", etc etc etc. It was actually a fairly good design, shame they basically went nowhere.

IIRC a big problem was maintaining Class 2 compliance; some fixtures need 2 or 3 pairs to get enough power (the LED strings were separated for this).
 

kwired

Electron manager
Cat6 sales are going to soar if this catches on. Saw it posted on another forum- POE powered 2x2 drop-in fixtures and dimmers from Ubiquiti. Looks like the IT geeks will be installing lighting now.

https://store.ubnt.com/collections/led

-Hal
Your link is full of information on how many of these one can power from the source at a time-----not.

I know LED's are efficient compared to other light sources, but aren't we talking about 24 AWG conductors and only 24V (if that) max from the source? One cable is not going to power that many luminaires before it is overloaded - and that is even before considering what the source can deliver. One circuit with 12 AWG and 277 volts AC can possibly power all lights on entire floor in many places.
 

electrofelon

Senior Member
Just seems like cat 5/6 and poe isnt the ideal cable for this. It was designed for other uses. That said, some sort of class 2 or 3 lighting system that is plug and play, could be a real time saver. Maybe we will see such things with the advent of lighting that uses less and less energy.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Just seems like cat 5/6 and poe isnt the ideal cable for this. It was designed for other uses. That said, some sort of class 2 or 3 lighting system that is plug and play, could be a real time saver. Maybe we will see such things with the advent of lighting that uses less and less energy.
POE lighting can possibly have some usefulness, but not for lighting an entire floor or even an average size office room.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Your link is full of information on how many of these one can power from the source at a time-----not.

I know LED's are efficient compared to other light sources, but aren't we talking about 24 AWG conductors and only 24V (if that) max from the source? One cable is not going to power that many luminaires before it is overloaded - and that is even before considering what the source can deliver. One circuit with 12 AWG and 277 volts AC can possibly power all lights on entire floor in many places.
Daisy chain?:D Each fixture is a home run back to the POE switch just like a network jack. :eek:

Who wants thousands of extra runs of network cable to run and terminate?
The IT guys, that's who.

-Hal
 

kwired

Electron manager
Daisy chain?:D Each fixture is a home run back to the POE switch just like a network jack. :eek:



The IT guys, that's who.

-Hal
Hope that was sarcastic response. Large building probably still would cost less to run conventional 277 volts then all those CAT5/6 cables if every one of them needs a home run.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Absolutely sarcastic. This is just another toy that the techies think is a great idea but in the real world just isn't practical. They would love for everything to be a part of the IoT and be controlled by your cell phone.

-Hal
 

Adamjamma

Senior Member
I have never understood the way a lot of these guys in IT wire up places. I always used routers or switches.. wire from one to another and have a bunch of outlets in a new location.. daisy chaining... but the guys are taught to run only from one place now.. yet they still have all the switches and routers...
just ten times or more in wire...

and the code now... none of the new code writers could make Fortran work on a PDP 8 e
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Are you ready for POE lighting?
I can recall the T8 revolution, followed by the T5's, only to be ousted by the LED one

Each retrofit predicated itself on either saving a $$, or the planet

While being a spark, or worse an EC required us to cheerlead it all on

So here we go again.....riding the creast of the green wave....

Is a mask & cape needed?

~RJ~
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Looks like the IT geeks will be installing lighting now.



-Hal[/QUOTE
Not in Washington anyway, our state L&I made a change some years ago to restrict POE lighting to those who are certified, IE journeylevel, limited energy. Our telecom installers do not have to be certified, however telecom contractors are licensed.
 

Fulthrotl

~~Please excuse the mess. Sig under construction~~
Cat6 sales are going to soar if this catches on. Saw it posted on another forum- POE powered 2x2 drop-in fixtures and dimmers from Ubiquiti. Looks like the IT geeks will be installing lighting now.

https://store.ubnt.com/collections/led

-Hal
well, as others have said, this dog won't hunt.

let's say that a typical 2x4 led drop in fixture pulls 39 watts.
most of them do, to simplify T24 compliance in Calif.... land
of green buildings and red fires.

keeping to an 80% circuit load, that comes to 113 fixtures.
per 20 amp 277 circuit. so, how many POE drops are we gonna need?

now, you say "but we can have all the controls ran over POE".
why would you want to?

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/WholeBuildingSystems/Vive/Overview.aspx

wireless controls. program with a cellphone. a wireless hub.
i watched a guy set one up in a 40k sq. ft. occupancy.
less than a days work. T24 compliant, daylight harvesting, load shed, scenes, everything.

no knowledge of controls or much of anything required for fixture install.
a hot from the panel unswitched, looped fixture to fixture. black, white, green. duh.

programmer doesn't need to be an electrician. cellphone, green pen laser, and a bit of
training.

if you are a sparky, and you have not learned how to program lighting controls,
you are moving in the wrong direction.
 

Adamjamma

Senior Member
notice it works at 434 Mhz... hmm... need to go back and check but, seems that a lot more interference can happen there as the frequency travels further... thus it is more liable to interfer with neighbors.. like a block away..lol...
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
notice it works at 434 Mhz... hmm... need to go back and check but, seems that a lot more interference can happen there as the frequency travels further... thus it is more liable to interfer with neighbors.. like a block away..lol...
But properly terminated twisted pairs will minimize the radiated energy at that frequency independent of distance.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
But properly terminated twisted pairs will minimize the radiated energy at that frequency independent of distance.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
OK, that takes care of the wire and connectors. How about the fixtures? No doubt the Chinese are sticklers when it comes to product performance...
 

Adamjamma

Senior Member
But properly terminated twisted pairs will minimize the radiated energy at that frequency independent of distance.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
hmmm.. but all the system is touted as being wireless.. and not at the UHF frequencies but at VHF frequencies... would love to see how tight the frequency spacing and coding is gonna be on these... as even in Ham radio RC boats and car races, we had problems with interference and ask anyone who has been involved in the cb days just how much interference there is on channel 9 from stuff on chnnel 7 or 13...lol
 

SceneryDriver

Senior Member
I have never understood the way a lot of these guys in IT wire up places. I always used routers or switches.. wire from one to another and have a bunch of outlets in a new location.. daisy chaining... but the guys are taught to run only from one place now.. yet they still have all the switches and routers...
just ten times or more in wire...

and the code now... none of the new code writers could make Fortran work on a PDP 8 e
Daisy chaining switches for additional ports can lead to several problems:

1) If you have a cable serving a switch, daisy chained to another switch, etc... and that cable goes down, you've lost a (potentially) large part of your network. Home runs limit the damage/outage to a single device, or at most two (typical office, with computer and IP phone on a single drop).

2) Security: Many organizations prohibit end users from connecting non-approved devices to the network. Higher-end switches can detect if they're connected to a single device, or if that port is connected to multiple devices through another switch. If so configured, security settings can shut down a switch port that detects its connected to multiple devices. This prevents rogue devices such as access points from being connected, and causing no end of config and security issues. CAT6 is cheap, compared to the possibility of a network breach because "Karen" in accounting wanted her own WiFi hotspot in her office.

With MAC address whitelisting, you can even limit the approved devices to a specific list. Anything else connected to the network will shut down the switch port and alert the IT dept.



SceneryDriver
 
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