Are you ready for POE lighting?

[Adamjamma]

OK. But, for my own home and others, usually daisy chain.. usually in pvc as well... as that way can replace cable easily if it fails .. normally pull two through for daisy chaining..but that is me.
Always been told I wa wrong but it works and is what many hotels use as well.

 

[SceneryDriver]

OK. But, for my own home and others, usually daisy chain.. usually in pvc as well... as that way can replace cable easily if it fails .. normally pull two through for daisy chaining..but that is me.
Always been told I wa wrong but it works and is what many hotels use as well.

For home use, your method is fine. As for hotels doing it that way, I wouldn't exactly hold them up to be the pinnacle of proper network design methodology.

One other reason to home run back to a central switch I didn't mention before: It limits the possibility of an uninformed end user accidentally patching two switch ports together. This can cause a packet storm and take down an entire network in seconds. Higher-end switches can filter and prevent a packet storm (by shutting down a poer, if necessary); many unmanaged switches cannot cope however.

Good choice pulling your CAT6 cables through PVC conduit. MUCH easier to repair/replace/upgrade.



SceneryDriver

 

[PetrosA]

I recently talked with a contractor who's wiring a new home for everything except lights, which are getting installed by the security guys. A few hundred LED recessed lights from some European manufacturer, all wired with CAT7 cable. I wanna see that.

 

[KaBoom!]

I recently talked with a contractor who's wiring a new home for everything except lights, which are getting installed by the security guys. A few hundred LED recessed lights from some European manufacturer, all wired with CAT7 cable. I wanna see that.

The LED pancake/wafer style recessed lights that I use now all use a low voltage cable to connect to the remote driver. I was thinking about starting to install the driver's in a central location instead of next to each light.

 

[hbiss]

...all wired with CAT7 cable.

Ah, the idiotic race for the most useless cable by idiots. Why on earth would lights need high speed data?

-Hal

 

[ActionDave]

Ah, the idiotic race for the most useless cable by idiots. Why on earth would lights need high speed data?

-Hal

Of course the lights don't need high speed data, they just don't need a big ole' honkin' 12AWG wire to feed them. What is needed is the NEC to pull it's head out and admit that some of their rules for wire sizing are outdated.

 

[gadfly56]

Of course the lights don't need high speed data, they just don't need a big ole' honkin' 12AWG wire to feed them. What is needed is the NEC to pull it's head out and admit that some of their rules for wire sizing are outdated.

OK, so how many pucks can you power with a single pair of 24 or 26 AWG? Not a lot, I'm guessing.

 

[ActionDave]

OK, so how many pucks can you power with a single pair of 24 or 26 AWG? Not a lot, I'm guessing.

So what. The point is you can do it.

 

[jumper]

if you are a sparky, and you have not learned how to program lighting controls,
you are moving in the wrong direction.

Yep.

 

[Fulthrotl]

great, hold my calls while i surf the manufacturer's offerings....~RJ~

i'd talk to programmers instead. but, do whatever works for you.

i know an independent programmer who is $1k a day, plus expenses.
he is booked weeks ahead. nets about $220k a year. flies all over the
country doing this stuff. laptop and a airline carry on bag.

 

[jumper]

i'd talk to programmers instead. but, do whatever works for you.

i know an independent programmer who is $1k a day, plus expenses.
he is booked weeks ahead. nets about $220k a year. flies all over the
country doing this stuff. laptop and a airline carry on bag.

Shoot, I am limited to Lutron stuff and can still pick up small contracts and make an easy buck.

 

[zbang]

i know an independent programmer who is $1k a day, plus expenses.

Where do I sign up?

(seriously, it's a line of work I'm willing to try and wrangling bad user interfaces is all in a day's work)

 

[kwired]

So what. The point is you can do it.

NEC has a section on low voltage lighting.

Is there a reason these need CAT 5/6 instead of simple two wire supply?

Sparky's not knowing how to program a lighting control? I don't expect to get into very much if any of that before I retire. Of course I don't plan to move to CA either.

Put occupancy sensors in restrooms in a small town church, happened to be church I attend. I tried to talk them out of them, some were concerned about lights getting left on occasionally and the wasted energy/money. I told them there isn't that much for lights, and that if they only get left on occasionally the sensors will cost more then they will ever save. They still have times when the sensors won't turn the lights off and have spent more on service calls then they ever saved:blink:

 

[electrofelon]

NEC has a section on low voltage lighting.

Is there a reason these need CAT 5/6 instead of simple two wire supply?

Sparky's not knowing how to program a lighting control? I don't expect to get into very much if any of that before I retire. Of course I don't plan to move to CA either.

Put occupancy sensors in restrooms in a small town church, happened to be church I attend. I tried to talk them out of them, some were concerned about lights getting left on occasionally and the wasted energy/money. I told them there isn't that much for lights, and that if they only get left on occasionally the sensors will cost more then they will ever save. They still have times when the sensors won't turn the lights off and have spent more on service calls then they ever saved:blink:

Yeah I get that frequently, "we want to save money." After a bunch of timers/phtotcells/occupancy sensors and labor.......

 

[curt swartz]

NEC has a section on low voltage lighting.

Is there a reason these need CAT 5/6 instead of simple two wire supply?:blink:

PoE is not just running 12V over a pair of wires. Depending on the standard it uses 2 or 4 pairs. It uses a much higher voltage and both ends of the circuit work together to regulate voltage and current. The newer PoE standards allow for 70+ watts per port at 100 meters (328'). Using standard 2-wire cable to run 12v from a remote driver to remote LED lighting will require some very large cable over that kind of distance.

 

[hbiss]

With PoE you still have the usual ethernet data on the cable also.

Aren't the conductors actually a smaller gauge with CAT 7?

-Hal

 

[kwired]

PoE is not just running 12V over a pair of wires. Depending on the standard it uses 2 or 4 pairs. It uses a much higher voltage and both ends of the circuit work together to regulate voltage and current. The newer PoE standards allow for 70+ watts per port at 100 meters (328'). Using standard 2-wire cable to run 12v from a remote driver to remote LED lighting will require some very large cable over that kind of distance.

I'll admit to not knowing a lot about PoE, but figured power was likely on just one pair.

I don't see how you could get 70 watts over 100 meters on such small conductors without getting into "power circuit" ratings rather than class 2/3/ communications circuit ratings, unless maybe you did utilize all four pairs for power.

 

[Adamjamma]

I'll admit to not knowing a lot about PoE, but figured power was likely on just one pair.

I don't see how you could get 70 watts over 100 meters on such small conductors without getting into "power circuit" ratings rather than class 2/3/ communications circuit ratings, unless maybe you did utilize all four pairs for power.

They use two pair for data and the usually spare two pair for the power, usually. Putting power on the data pairs can cause too many problems with errors in data.

Of course, many of my old installations could not use this technique as we used the extra two pairs for telephones and intercoms..lol...

 

[Michael Hockenberry]

POE DC voltage will cost much less in KW than converting AC from power company...

POE DC voltage will cost much less in KW than converting AC from power company...

POE DC voltage will cost much less in KW than converting AC from power company...

I don’t see it...

As lights get more efficient, we are able to daisy chain more and more on each 120 or 277v circuit, which makes wiring easy and straight forward. Who wants thousands of extra runs of network cable to run and terminate?

Any of the benefits of having the lights connected to the network can also be had using currently wireless technology. My niece was so happy to show me how she can control the brightness and color of her bedroom light with her iPhone :lol:

 

[SceneryDriver]

POE DC voltage will cost much less in KW than converting AC from power company...

And just where, pray tell, does the PoE -supplying switch get its power? Still gotta plug that switch into an AC receptacle...



SceneryDriver