Area with the lowest electrical fires

[roger]

It's OK Roger. I just got tired of people asking me to sing that Aiky Breaky song.

LOL :grin:

Roger

 

[jsmalone1]

as with all data, there is much more to it. Those first states listed have many mobile homes and homes heated by wood, among a litany of other factors. Having managed most of the large projects in the Chicagoland area for the past 20 years I would say most of the large fires there are in fact electrical fires, far above the national average. Conduit, I believe, is ridiculous in homes. NM/Romex is fine and the norm in 98% of homes. Many deaths from lost grounds due to broken or rusted out conduit can easily be factually presented. Unions love conduit as a make work scheme, but many of my fellow union electricians are simply not very skilled at installing it. Do some research on mandatory ground wires in conduit---look who fought for it and against it. Our NEC has gotten to the point of insanity, as I have said before----it's interesting that here on this forum and in life, it's difficult to get a consensus on a code question. It should be made simpler and smaller and conduit is not the answer.

 

[petersonra]

as with all data, there is much more to it. Those first states listed have many mobile homes and homes heated by wood, among a litany of other factors. Having managed most of the large projects in the Chicagoland area for the past 20 years I would say most of the large fires there are in fact electrical fires, far above the national average.

I read a press release from Chicago one time that claimed their rat prevention efforts were responsible for a decrease in fires. Believe nothing that comes from anything remotely official in Chicago, as it is almost certainly either a bald faced lie, decption, or misrepresentation of some sort.

Conduit, I believe, is ridiculous in homes. NM/Romex is fine and the norm in 98% of homes.
agreed.

Many deaths from lost grounds due to broken or rusted out conduit can easily be factually presented.
I am not convinced of that. It would require both a rust out and some kind of short that was not cleared for that to occur. besides, if the conduit was in a place where it was subject to that kind of rusting, that problem whould be addressed with some kind of coating, or a non-corroding conduit.

Unions love conduit as a make work scheme,
I agree this is the primary reason for conduit being required.

but many of my fellow union electricians are simply not very skilled at installing it.
Agreed. But you have to remember you are in Chicago. Very little is about skill. Its mostly about clout and who gets a payoff.

Do some research on mandatory ground wires in conduit---look who fought for it and against it.
I am not convinced a green wire inside the conduit that is not installed right makes things any better. Conduit that is done right is a perfectly good EGC.

Our NEC has gotten to the point of insanity, as I have said before----it's interesting that here on this forum and in life, it's difficult to get a consensus on a code question. It should be made simpler and smaller and conduit is not the answer.
Agreed.

It would be pretty easy to come up with very simplified electrical codes that could be used in residences that would make things a lot more cost effective, and probably safer.

 

[jsmalone1]

It would be pretty easy to come up with very simplified electrical codes that could be used in residences that would make things a lot more cost effective, and probably safer.

actually, the Village of Oak Brook (west of Chicago) prides itself for having a stringent electrical code. The conduits for the main service to their village hall rusted through and some of the cables faulted. The village was shutdown for a number of days while we excavated the old service and replaced it with---PVC--which ironically, is not allowed by code there under any circumstances. I personally experienced a broken conduit at a family friend's pool which energized the conduit at the pool's pump house. My friend's mother was electrocuted. Conduit with no ground wire. Also, the company I worked for did a major remodel at an area mall in 1998. It was originally built in about 1975. All the exterior underground conduit was rigid when they still galvanized it heavily. We dug up underground where the ground was dark orange from the breakdown of the conduit with just the wires laying there.

 

[petersonra]

actually, the Village of Oak Brook (west of Chicago) prides itself for having a stringent electrical code. The conduits for the main service to their village hall rusted through and some of the cables faulted. The village was shutdown for a number of days while we excavated the old service and replaced it with---PVC--which ironically, is not allowed by code there under any circumstances. I personally experienced a broken conduit at a family friend's pool which energized the conduit at the pool's pump house. My friend's mother was electrocuted. Conduit with no ground wire. Also, the company I worked for did a major remodel at an area mall in 1998. It was originally built in about 1975. All the exterior underground conduit was rigid when they still galvanized it heavily. We dug up underground where the ground was dark orange from the breakdown of the conduit with just the wires laying there.

None of this means that metal conduit needs to have a green wire in it. It shows that metal conduit is a poor choice for certain installations. Even with a green wire in it, conduit that deteriorates like that is an unsafe installation.

 

[jsmalone1]

None of this means that metal conduit needs to have a green wire in it. It shows that metal conduit is a poor choice for certain installations. Even with a green wire in it, conduit that deteriorates like that is an unsafe installation.

OH--agreed, but I believe every conduit run should have a ground wire in it. I did many jobs where it was not required or spec and it's fine, but so many electricians can't even tighten all the couplings=a huge problem---I can't check them all--you and I can't do it all---but it really amounts to making adjustments for incompetency. I am a union member and may have been proud of that at one point. But I firmly believe that those unions promote mediocrity---some of us are actually professionals---I never fit in there because I demanded professional work, a decent days work, and respect for others. Most of my employees are very decent people, trying their best to do a days work--but they are not always professionals at the trade

 

[petersonra]

I am a union member and may have been proud of that at one point. But I firmly believe that those unions promote mediocrity---some of us are actually professionals---I never fit in there because I demanded professional work, a decent days work, and respect for others.

I think you can find plenty of non-union hacks as well.

I am pretty much convinced that mediocrity is about the best you can hope for in the majority of workers these days. The non-monetary rewards for doing a job well were done away with. I think a huge part of it is that people who have never done a lick of labor in their life infest HR departments and write rules and regulations that promote what they see as fairness and equity. In the real world, there is no such thing as fair.