Art. 110.12(C)

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Ben Trueblood

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What is the contamination factor of paint on the busbar of a panel? Can it be cleaned off and still hold the integrity of the manufactured product? Can it be considered safe after contamination? How about if it is water based paint? This has been a hot topic of discussion. I appreciate any professional insight.
 
Imo,,,,,

Imo,,,,,

Once something gets contaminated by a foreign body, you can not clean it unless the manufacturer has already tested the technique, approves the technique and lists the contaminants. Personally,, I think you can clean water based paint off the buss bar and have it work for the next 50 years but, if I was the manufacture of the buss bar I cannot take that liberty. I have thousands of units out in the world and cannot take the chance that: 1) everyone is going to take care in cleaning the buss, and 2) that perhaps it does have an issue, one that could only be found by a suitable control test.

I realize these things look silly, but just look at some of the things people do in an effort to save money..

Just my 2cents

ed
 
Mark, I posted a topic a while back on this same situation and it was unanimous........Dumpster....replace....unless others have had a change of thought. Use of chemicals and abrasives are out of the question to clean the bus. All I know is they are replacing the interiors of the panels I had previously mentioned.
 
I agree if you use abrasives or chemicals, I have had a few when I was out in the field that got minimal paint on them and was able to clean with water and a soft brush.

Mark
 
I would not worry about cleaning paint off of bus bar anywhere near as much as I would worry about cleaning it off of the insulators. Buy a new interior.
 
This has been a conversation here on more than one occasion.My self have dealt with this issue time and time again.What I have found is that even a water/latex paint can be cleaned with no chemicals.A pressure washer does a great job.Drywall texture comes right off with a rag and water.
 
Allen, Have you checked with the Manufacturer ? What do they say about cleaning the bus/ interior? If they have a solution then get in writing. Cover your warranty and liability.
 
allenwayne said:
A pressure washer does a great job.
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That is nuts.

We just replaced an entire 4000 amp switch gear that had gotten flooded before it was ever energized.

The customer is paying for new products, not panels that are already starting to rust.
 
Bob, maybe i should have been more specific.I wasn`t talking about 4000 amp switch gear.I was refering to a simple 200 amp residential panel.That is where you`ll find this problem more prevelent.

I for one agree with you we didn`t install it painted so the culprit should pay.I have many painting contractors come unglued when back charged for contaminated panels.Especially when the backcharge is as much as the check they were waiting on.

My response was to the specific question.Is there a way to clean paint and not violate the NEC by using chemicals to remove the paint.I for one don`t have a problem with removing the buss bars from a standard residential panel and pressure washing them with plain water.Reinstalling them and I sleep soudly that this is a safe practice IMHO.
 
allenwayne said:
Bob, maybe i should have been more specific.I wasn`t talking about 4000 amp switch gear.I was refering to a simple 200 amp residential panel.
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I figured that much.

My point was the cost of one of these panels is hardly worth the effort.

I for one don`t have a problem with removing the buss bars from a standard residential panel and pressure washing them with plain water.Reinstalling them and I sleep soudly that this is a safe practice IMHO.
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That is nuts.

I can not even guess what an inspector would say if they walked on a job and I was pressure washing bus bars.

Do I think it would work....Yes.

Would I do it.....No way, not unless I had documentation from the manufacture that said they approve of this and will honer any warranty claims.

What ever I do in the field the company is responsible for at least one year.

Why the heck would we take any extra risk due to another trades poor practices?
 
Bob I didn`t mean pressure wash them in the panel.What I do is remove a new set of panel guts at the shop and swap out on site.then the painted panel guts are put back in the can from the replacement guts.They get stacked and when there are enough (which doesn`t take long).And the guys in the warehouse are slow they pull the buss bars clean them and they are put back together checked for tightness and reused.

We already got paid to replace them so that was sheer profit.We have salary guys that do this, so they don`t add any cost.We have the guts cans and covers.So whats nuts 100 % profit on the next job.??????
 
allenwayne said:
buss bars clean them and they are put back together checked for tightness and reused.
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What about the insulators? How do you clean them?

Where do you find the correct (manufacturer approved) torque values?

In the old days manufacturers sold replacement bus bar kits so your procedure might have been acceptable. I don't know of a single manufacturer that currently allows the field replacement of bus bars in their panels.
 
These 200 amp homeline panels we use have a 1 piece assly.that is removed by removing the bonding screw and one center screw and they slip out of the tabs in the can.You swap out the guts reattach the grounded and grounding conductors from the circuits.Reattach the feeders and reinstall the bonding screw.(which is 35 in lbs. of torque) I know this because we had an inspector tagging finals for bonding screw loose and i went in a new panel and found the manuf. tag that has the torque value on it.The next time he tried it i pulled out the tag from the manufacturer and asked him if his 10 in 1 was a torque screwdriver also ???? :)

Use a 3500 pressure washer and any laytex paint comes off.The plastic is clean the busses are clean even the ground bars are clean.I don`t see a problem with this and we have recycled probably 2 maybe 300 panels doing this.With the price of 1 panel X maybe 300 + panels that`s a hunk of change.
 
allenwayne said:
Use a 3500 pressure washer and any laytex paint comes off.The plastic is clean the busses are clean even the ground bars are clean.I don`t see a problem with this and we have recycled probably 2 maybe 300 panels doing this.With the price of 1 panel X maybe 300 + panels that`s a hunk of change.
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It's a bad plan, plain and simple.
 
allenwayne said:
Use a 3500 pressure washer and any laytex paint comes off.The plastic is clean the busses are clean even the ground bars are clean.I don`t see a problem with this and we have recycled probably 2 maybe 300 panels doing this.With the price of 1 panel X maybe 300 + panels that`s a hunk of change.
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With that many panels getting contaminated, I think I might have focused my effort on solving the issue beforehand. I generally cut a piece out of the cardboard box the panel came in and jam it in the panel to prevent the contamination.
 
mdshunk said:
With that many panels getting contaminated, I think I might have focused my effort on solving the issue beforehand. I generally cut a piece out of the cardboard box the panel came in and jam it in the panel to prevent the contamination.
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Bingo!:wink:

Roger
 
That is S.O.P. on a rough in.But for some reason it seems that people remove it.We tried duct taping it in place too.The problem is with the paint crews not the electricians.

Bob i appreciate your opinion that it is a bad plan but that is what that is your opinion.Same as mine that there is nothing wrong with recycling these painted panels.No chemicals, no paint, no problem.
 
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