Art. 110.12(C)

[acrwc10]

Paint is a chemical

Paint is a chemical

I meant to post this yesterday but the tide was right and the reds were biting.

Ya. thats my kind of work.

I think the one major item over looked in all the replys is water based paint is a ''chemical" it is not water. The fact that it has been on the buss means it has contaminated the buss. It will have already started to dammage the metal and this can not be washed away. The sad fact of cunstruction is there are many less then qualified people following behind us and the only way to train some of them is by back charging them for thier actions.

 

[roger]

The fact that it has been on the buss means it has contaminated the buss. It will have already started to dammage the metal and this can not be washed away.

Exactly, and selling these parts to an unknowing customer after they have been paid for once by the Painter (in the way of a back charge) is an ethical issue.

The painter should be handed these parts after he has paid for them so he can get what salvage money there may be for them, if he doesn't want them they should be sold as scrap by the EC, not put into service unless it has been disclosed to the consumer.

Roger

 

[jsharvey]

"Cleaned" Busses

"Cleaned" Busses

I'm going to throw my two cents in here. I'm not sure about the manufactures requirements for cleaning the busses or if there even is one, and frankly I don't care, the painter messes up my panel, he buys it.
My concern is selling used equipment as new. Would you want to buy a "New" car that had 10,000 miles on it? You'd never know because the dealer rolled back the odometer. He says it just came off the trailer and you have no way of knowing otherwise.
I'm not sure about where you are but here in flatland Kansas doing what you're suggesting isn't only unethical but illegal also due to the states comsumer protection laws. You may get away with it most of the time, but is it worth getting bit on at some point? You know disgruntled employees/co-workers have a way of running their mouths at the most inopportune times.
Sounds to me like another case of the all mighty buck over-riding someones common sense. I'm all for making a buck or two but do it on the up and up. Some stunts that get done come back to bite all of us, making us all look like hacks instead of professionals.
I may just be a journeyman, don't own or run my own business but, i do know the difference between honest and dis-honest.

Down off my soap box now

J.S.Harvey

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I meant to post this yesterday but the tide was right and the reds were biting.

These panels that have been painted are cardboarded on the rough in.What happens between that time and trim out when they are found painted is not within our control.Remember these are not one house being built here another there.These are entire blocks built at the same time so we might have 100 or so houses going to trim within a 2 or 3 week span.

We replace the guts with brand new guts so as not to tear walls to pieces.So the painter is paying for and the homeowner are getting a new panel minus the can.BTW the paying of backcharges isn`t an option for them.We get a PO from the builder and the monies are just deducted from the check they recieve along with a back charge slip.Same as if we have to do drywall damage for a missed wire the monies rae just taken.Now if on trim it is found that there is damaged wiring the entire back charge goes to the party that caused the damage,usually the framer that came back for changes or punch out.They pay for our work and the drywall repair and the painters.

Maybe some feel that cleaning the buss bars and reusing them isn`t a good practice but that are just opinions,like I have mine.

It doesn`t take long for a painting contractor to make the guys on the jobs mask off panels @ $695.00 / panel .They mask everything else why not a panel.

Isn't that bit like gouging ? A fair price of maybe $100 for the guts and 1 hour labor for a 15 minute swap out.At the point of finding this painted buss bar i assume no breakers been installed yet.As for the water issue i must question the quality of the water.It is not pure water.Should this cleaned panel fry i am sure the mfg will be checking it as to why.Your risking a fire over this that could cost you thousands,is it worth it ?

 

[acrwc10]

Isn't that bit like gouging ? A fair price of maybe $100 for the guts and 1 hour labor for a 15 minute swap out.At the point of finding this painted buss bar i assume no breakers been installed yet.As for the water issue i must question the quality of the water.It is not pure water.Should this cleaned panel fry i am sure the mfg will be checking it as to why.Your risking a fire over this that could cost you thousands,is it worth it ?

Lets face facts. The mans price is his price. No one can say it is to high if he is the one that has to go and collect it. It is between him and the painter/contractor. The actual labor may be a few minutes but the time lost when you should be closing up the panel, the time to get the parts, write the billing , etc. this is all in that cost. If you pissed in the paint bucket do you think the painter would say "that was only 1/4 full and it was on sale." No he would charge for the full 5 gal. time to get it, disposal of the old, custom paint tinting etc. So why give him your labor and time for free? Besides if he was a professional he wouldn't have painted the bussing to start with.Let him learn the hard way. He will tell all his friends what an A-- h--- the electrician is and cry like a child. But he won't paint the panels again and niether will any one of his friends that he cried to.And he can keep the old panel as a reminder if he does it to me. I don't damage others work and I will go out of my way to think of how my work will interface with others and to make it easy for us to work together.This is how a job runs smoothly. I expect the same in return.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Lets face facts. The mans price is his price. No one can say it is to high if he is the one that has to go and collect it. It is between him and the painter/contractor. The actual labor may be a few minutes but the time lost when you should be closing up the panel, the time to get the parts, write the billing , etc. this is all in that cost. If you pissed in the paint bucket do you think the painter would say "that was only 1/4 full and it was on sale." No he would charge for the full 5 gal. time to get it, disposal of the old, custom paint tinting etc. So why give him your labor and time for free? Besides if he was a professional he wouldn't have painted the bussing to start with.Let him learn the hard way. He will tell all his friends what an A-- h--- the electrician is and cry like a child. But he won't paint the panels again and niether will any one of his friends that he cried to.And he can keep the old panel as a reminder if he does it to me. I don't damage others work and I will go out of my way to think of how my work will interface with others and to make it easy for us to work together.This is how a job runs smoothly. I expect the same in return.

Thats well and good but painter will get you back for repainting that wall your men left finger prints on ($695 should be enough).

 

[Davis9]

I always thought that we had to protect our equipment in these cases? I would just cut a piece of cardboard from the box it came in and call it a day.

Tom

 

[acrwc10]

Thats well and good but painter will get you back for repainting that wall your men left finger prints on ($695 should be enough).

easier said then done. If there are finger prints on a wall they could be anyones. Paint in the panel on the other hand? I dont think it was the plumber.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

easier said then done. If there are finger prints on a wall they could be anyones. Paint in the panel on the other hand? I dont think it was the plumber.

If they are all next to the outlets i think its safe to say who did it.And if you ever need to cut up drywall for a missing wall they will get even.Backcharges should not be used to hurt eachother.Charge a fair price for what it really cost.

 

[LarryFine]

If there are finger prints on a wall they could be anyones.

Not if they're gathered around device boxes.

That's one of the reasons I strip and prep at rough, while I'm already holding Kleins and/or strippers. Trim only requires an electric screwdriver.

 

[acrwc10]

If they are all next to the outlets i think its safe to say who did it.And if you ever need to cut up drywall for a missing wall they will get even.Backcharges should not be used to hurt eachother.Charge a fair price for what it really cost.

If they are all next to outlets maybe you should get out your check book and pay the painter for messing up his work! What do you think he can't be a "Hack" and you can? I don't leave marks all over the walls do you?

Edited for expletive innuendo