Articale 680.25 and the exceptions RE - Pool feeders

[WinZip]

Few weeks ago I went to look at a job at residential home about 3500 sq ft and the crawl was high enough so I went under to see how we were going to do the things he wanted done that had to be run under house from main panel , anyhow when under there I saw things that were just unbelievable how it was wired , real old romex someone had laying around some junction boxes with no covers and some that the twisted joints just hanging out of these boxes with no wire nuts and a lot of other crazy type wiring I said to my self run from this guy when you get out from under house.

So when I got out I asked you look like you know a little about electrical wiring an he smiled an then I asked him do you do all the add on things under the house he said yes to save money I then asked do you live here alone he said no I have wife an 3 kids I then said sir you will one day have a fire and your family is at risk an I suggest you call another elec co because we are jammed an no time to do it.

It was an unreal mess to say the least and putting his family at risk.

 

[WinZip]

Here is a great Idea if someone had the means to do it.


Have a voice activated voice data system that you pay a monthly fee to call and ask any code question like the subject Ive been on here and this data base searches it out and gives you the Information you asked for

Yeah and then homeowners and contractors could just eliminate us ! :thumbsdown:

Stevie,

Dennis posted this link not long ago so click on that.

http://ecmweb.com/nec/code_qa/code_qa_120408/index.html

 

[JDB3]

I realize what the code says about pool panels, not very easy to do in a 2 story residence, to wire in any form of conduit within the walls. Even in ENC (smurf), hard to turn it in a 2x4 stud with hardy board siding on the outside. Any suggestions?:?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I realize what the code says about pool panels, not very easy to do in a 2 story residence, to wire in any form of conduit within the walls. Even in ENC (smurf), hard to turn it in a 2x4 stud with hardy board siding on the outside. Any suggestions?:?

There are times that it will be difficult but if people are paying 30,000 and up for a pool then they need to deal with the reality that the service may need work.

What does a 2 story residence have to do with it? If you have a crawl space use it, if the inside is finished then the pipe needs to go outside to get to the pool. We can't perform miracles but we need to cover ourselves. There is always a way to be compliant it just may cost a bit more money.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

In terms of the bare copper vs insulated-- I have no answer for you. Certainly in many instances the bare copper is fine but not compliant. I assume the insulation is to protect the wire in corrosive environments.

 

[WinZip]

I realize what the code says about pool panels, not very easy to do in a 2 story residence, to wire in any form of conduit within the walls. Even in ENC (smurf), hard to turn it in a 2x4 stud with hardy board siding on the outside. Any suggestions?:?

JD3,

We do high end pools for very high end customers all the time and the only hard part running conduit under the house is getting to the bottom of the panel which can be tricky just cover every thing before you start to drill up from under.

If running conduit from a panel up into an attic area you have to explain to the customer there will be some conduit showing exiting the upper level to the sub panel an that could even be painted to match siding , most don't mind it at all..

 

[WinZip]

I realize what the code says about pool panels, not very easy to do in a 2 story residence, to wire in any form of conduit within the walls. Even in ENC (smurf), hard to turn it in a 2x4 stud with hardy board siding on the outside. Any suggestions?:?

JD4 ,

Here is another link I found at EC&M - has quite a bit of info on pool-spas-fountains but I still haven't located what I'm looking for from my first post.

http://ecmweb.com/searchresults/?terms=electrical+for+pools&ord=r&cat=&x=0&y=0

 

[WinZip]

Hi Folks ,

Question maybe someone knows where it is on this forum , awhile back I had contacted Mike Holt to clarify the exceptions in 680.25 A - B - B1-2

about using an existing sub panel to feed a new pool sub panel , I don't rem all of what was asked of him but I do remember his reply.

His reply as I remember it , he did not care about what any exception said in that code section and that a new pool sub panel must be run in conduit from the service panel to the pool sub panel in conduit and 4 Insulated conductors and the grounding conductor must be copper.

Been having some issues with electricians in out of town areas here in Virginia that are wiring these very large homes an they have been told about running conduit with 4 Insulated conductors but they seem to get away with SER and I have told my pool contractor when I pull the permit it will be for our equipment only no feeder and if they choose to run SER they can connect it to our control panel which is also a sub panel only , and that the liability is off me.

Now I ca n not remember if it was an email from Mike Holt that he sent me or was posted some where in this forum but would like to find it and print out what he said RE this matter.

Any help would be appreciated.

WinZip

I had no luck finding what was asked in my original post and I know Mike Holt either emailed me reply or posted in here some where.

Will have to keep researching.

WinZip

 

[WinZip]

It was something brought up in the forum about a service to a sub panel in conduit with aluminum conductors that fed another sub panel in the same way and then fed a new pool sub panel 4 conductor , And I honestly believe MH said that the grounding conductor of that whole run from the service to first panel to second panel to pool panel would need a copper ground conductor all the way back to the main service.

Sorry about last post , this is the one I meant to post.

WinZip