Automotive "chip"

[iceworm]

I like the "brown gas" crowd.

Me: Let me see if I understand. You are burning gasoline to produce horsepower (28%) to spin at alternator to produce electricity (90%). The electricity separates the water into H2 and O2, both combined in the same container and piping. The O2, H2 mix is then drawn into the intake manifold along with the gasoline-air mix, and then into the cylinders and burned to produce horsepower. Is that correct?

Them: Yes

Me: And the engine produces enough more horsepower to turn the alternator to get the electricity to split the water into H2, O2?

Them: Oh, absolutely. Enough more horsepower that the engine takes less gasoline to move the car.

Me: So, we get more energy out of burning the H2, O2 that it took to split the water. That's a pretty healthy violation of the First and Second Laws of Thermodymanics.

Them: No response

Me: Let's continue. The Electrolysis container and piping all contain an optimum flammable mix of O2, H2. If there is the least bit of a backfire, how is this mix stopped from detonating - as in exploding.

Them: Huh ......

 

[drcampbell]

Ah, yes, some of my favorites.
The typical car engine consumes a hundred kilograms of air:fuel mix per hour. The typical Brown's Gas generator consumes less than one kilogram of H₂O per month, yet it has a stunning influence on the engine's performance?

"It's not a First Law violation. It facilitates complete combustion and extracts useful work out of the fuel that would have been dumped out of the tailpipe unburned & unutilized."
Maybe in 1959, but if there were a significant amount of unburned fuel leaving the engine today, the catalytic converters would ignite everything nearby while they assure that any unburned fuel leaving the engine is oxidized before it leaves the tailpipe.

Whaddaya say you do an A-B-A test and report your results? Turn it on, consume a tank of fuel, record the mileage. Turn it off, consume another tank of fuel, record the mileage again. Turn it back on ...
Hello? You still out there? You ever perform that A-B-A test?

 

[iceworm]

I did get my 2004, F250, 6.0L, International diesel "chipped" (reprogrammed) optimized for towing. About $300 as I recall.
Fuel consumption, towing 14K lb, NTE 70 MPH, went from 10MPG to 12MPG (anecdotal information from recorded trips).
And the turbo lag on take-off (towing 14K lb) went from highly noticeable to none.

WE did put in an EGT gauge. According to the tuner, if we got into a low rpm, high load (higher gear, pulling on a hill) the engine EGT could easily get too high and burn valves, piston tops. The solution was to keep the engine rpm up (downshift ahead of time) Okay, not a problem, we never had any trouble.

One might say the trade-off was, better efficiency and a bit more horse power, traded for the possibility to get into an operating range where one could damage the engine.

But that engine was a bit of a POS. It had lots of hp and was pretty reliable EXCEPT:
About 40K miles the exhaust gas cooler started leaking into the coolant. And the engine type has a history of stretched headbolts, failed headgaskets, and something about the injector O-rings.

There was a class action lawsuit - of which we got ...........................................................nothing.

So, $5200 later, all suspect parts replaced with aftermarket parts, we had an excellent running truck again.

EXCEPT, the shop put the ECU programming back to factory (*&^$#%^()*)

worm (sigh)

 

[drcampbell]

... the shop put the ECU programming back to factory (*&^$#%^()*) ...

Their alternative is fine of up to a $25,000 per event for violating federal emission law.

 

[iceworm]

Their alternative is fine of up to a $25,000 per event for violating federal emission law.

Interesting thought. Let's see, there are outfits like Banks, Bully Dog, Edge Products, Diablosport, Quadzilla, Superchips Inc, Hypertech, PPE, TS Performance, SCT, MADS Electronics Smarty Tuner, Calibrated Power, Duramax Tuner, ATS Diesel Performance, and GDP Tuning. That was just the first cut on a google search on "pickup diesel engine tuners".

So, there are busloads of federal agents sitting outside their doors writing a citation for every pickup rolling out the door? :rotflmao:

I wouldn't know - not my area of expertise. Hey, you may know better than all of the vendors.

 

[iceworm]

Their alternative is fine of up to a $25,000 per event for violating federal emission law.

My guess it was for warranty issues.

 

[sameguy]

And no one here ever speeds right!
Diesel, with the EPA stuff lower power, lower fuel economy, more engine problems, DEF use,,,,,,
Lower power/ fuel economy so more fuel needed so more oilfields refineries, worker travel.....
Engine problems, go to any diesel talk board, more cost, more parts, more down time.
DEF more petro to make jugs, new factories, more workers traveling more,
If you add up all the "green" laws we are polluting more than not.

Your son with the high tires isn't going to get better fuel economy but could get more hp/ torque with a tune.

 

[MAC702]

...Diesel, with the EPA stuff lower power, lower fuel economy, more engine problems, DEF use,,,,,,
Lower power/ fuel economy so more fuel needed so more oilfields refineries, worker travel.....
Engine problems, go to any diesel talk board, more cost, more parts, more down time.
DEF more petro to make jugs, new factories, more workers traveling more,
If you add up all the "green" laws we are polluting more than not....

Thank you for doing ALL the math, but you can only sell laws on emotions.

 

[sameguy]

Hehe your welcome, you should see me add up for solar or wind used in the wrong areas.

 

[drcampbell]

 

[kwired]

View attachment 22680

How long since last rainfall for each picture?

 

[ptonsparky]

How long since last rainfall for each picture?

You are a youngster, I know, but that was when the term ‘acid rain’ came about. Give or take a few years.

 

[kwired]

You are a youngster, I know, but that was when the term ‘acid rain’ came about. Give or take a few years.

But it still cleaned the sky for a while when it did rain.

 

[drcampbell]

How long since last rainfall for each picture?

I have no idea. But I lived in southern California during the 1970s and observed yellow air firsthand, rain or no rain. Thanks to the EPA, SCAQMD & CARB, it's not like that any more.

I also observed the Pennsylvania Turnpike firsthand during the 1980s & 1990s. Every place it passed through a cut, there was a swath of dead trees 100 meters on either side of the highway, and every pond & lake was crystal clear, completely poisoned by acid rain, most of which began as NOx emissions from motor vehicles. It's not like that any more, either. Maybe you're a city kid and don't care about ponds, lakes & trees? Fair enough -- but the same acid rain was falling on the cropland where your food is grown.

As for the CAFE and air-quality regulations undermining fuel economy and causing more pollution than not -- sorry, that's total B.S. Sure, there was a teething period during which the manufacturers tried to tack on emission control to existing products instead of designing it in from the start, but that's ancient history now.

Let me refresh your memory. Here's a page from the 1974 Gas-Mileage Guide for Car Buyers, before the CAFE mandates began to take effect. It's from the middle of the guide, to present a fair survey, neither pessimistic nor optimistic. The best of the bunch -- a Honda Civic with a 76 cubic inch engine -- achieved only 29.1 mi/gal. The last page is almost frightening:
10.4 mi/gal Cadillac Eldorado
9.0 mi/gal Ford station wagon
7.8 mi/gal IHC Travelall
6.8 mi/gal Oldsmobile Toronado
Imagine what our international trade deficit and foreign-war entanglements would be like -- and how much clout OPEC would have -- if we were still burning gas at this rate, with Americans driving twice as many miles now as we did then!

(much of the fuel-economy data is online now, although not all the way back to 1974: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/ )

It's important to remember, and if you're too young to remember, to learn history.



Higher-resolution scan: https://i.postimg.cc/HxJxGLqH/1974-gas-mileage-guide-p4.jpg

 

[kwired]

I have no idea. But I lived in southern California during the 1970s and observed yellow air firsthand, rain or no rain. Thanks to the EPA, SCAQMD & CARB, it's not like that any more.

I also observed the Pennsylvania Turnpike firsthand during the 1980s & 1990s. Every place it passed through a cut, there was a swath of dead trees 100 meters on either side of the highway, and every pond & lake was crystal clear, completely poisoned by acid rain, most of which began as NOx emissions from motor vehicles. It's not like that any more, either. Maybe you're a city kid and don't care about ponds, lakes & trees? Fair enough -- but the same acid rain was falling on the cropland where your food is grown.

As for the CAFE and air-quality regulations undermining fuel economy and causing more pollution than not -- sorry, that's total B.S. Sure, there was a teething period during which the manufacturers tried to tack on emission control to existing products instead of designing it in from the start, but that's ancient history now.

Let me refresh your memory. Here's a page from the 1974 Gas-Mileage Guide for Car Buyers, before the CAFE mandates began to take effect. It's from the middle of the guide, to present a fair survey, neither pessimistic nor optimistic. The best of the bunch -- a Honda Civic with a 76 cubic inch engine -- achieved only 29.1 mi/gal. The last page is almost frightening:
10.4 mi/gal Cadillac Eldorado
9.0 mi/gal Ford station wagon
7.8 mi/gal IHC Travelall
6.8 mi/gal Oldsmobile Toronado
Imagine what our international trade deficit and foreign-war entanglements would be like -- and how much clout OPEC would have -- if we were still burning gas at this rate, with Americans driving twice as many miles now as we did then!

(much of the fuel-economy data is online now, although not all the way back to 1974: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/ )

It's important to remember, and if you're too young to remember, to learn history.

View attachment 22682 View attachment 22683

Higher-resolution scan: https://i.postimg.cc/HxJxGLqH/1974-gas-mileage-guide-p4.jpg

Far from it. But never been to any of those cities with major issues back then either. Been to LA once, 2012, but when told someone about the mountains to the east they said it must have rained because otherwise you wouldn't have seen them. It did rain while I was there.

There wasn't as many people here but we were not great at taking care of the planet either. A lot of diesel engines used for pumping irrigation water - back in 1970's and even into 80's guys would just pull plug when changing oil and let old oil run onto the ground. Those that were smart maybe didn't want that mess right there and would at least catch it - but still probably dumped it somewhere they wouldn't today.

 

[ptonsparky]

The Oil draining makes me think back when the practice of pouring a small amount of oil onto standing puddles was used to reduce mosquito population.

That and drinking water from those wells that had a slight sheen of oil slick at the end of the irrigation ditch. Didn’t take to many times of ____g like goose, to figure that one out.

 

[K8MHZ]

The Oil draining makes me think back when the practice of pouring a small amount of oil onto standing puddles was used to reduce mosquito population.

That and drinking water from those wells that had a slight sheen of oil slick at the end of the irrigation ditch. Didn’t take to many times of ____g like goose, to figure that one out.

Growing up in the country, we didn't waste much drain oil by just dumping it. It had too many other uses. It was used as a fire starter, a pesticide, a cleaner and lubricant for dirty chains, a 'bolt buster' when mixed with whatever solvents you had laying around, a rust proofer and dust abatement. Dust abatement was where most of it finally made it's way back into the environment. There are actually trailers with a tank and pump and spray head designed specifically for spraying oil on dirt and gravel roads to keep the dust down.

 

[iceworm]

... but we were not great at taking care of the planet either. ....

In the mid '60s (high school) and again in the early '70 (college) I was working summers for petroleum piping contractor.

One of the jobs I recall was cleaning leaded gasoline storage tanks for an oil company major. The owner was no slouch. We had a class on waste disposal, we had all the equipment, respirators, airline masks, chem suits. The sludge was buried in the tank yard, in a fabric lined pit, with steel post markers at each end - all right in accordance with the law.

Fast forward 10+ years, mid '80s. I'm bored working for engineering outfits so I go back to work for the same petroleum piping contractor. And we get hired to go back in a clean up the leaded gas sludge pits. Laws have changed - the pits are now considered illegal dumping. New classes, called Hazmat classes now. New equipment, looks about the same, updated, and a few new pieces. We are digging up the pit, testing the dirt for tetraethyl lead, loading into over-pak drums and arranging for transportation to a waste disposal company.

It's a small town, everybody knows what is going on. We are at a Saturday night gathering (alcohol involved) and I gravitate to clump of young ladies. One of them tears into me with, "How could you be so terrible and crap up the earth with this disgusting poisonous sludge?" Good heavens lady. In the '70s we disposed of the sludge exactly in accordance with the law. The laws have changed and we are now hired to clean it up and dispose again in accordance with the current law. So tell me Snowflake, What would you suggest?:?

I didn't get lucky that night either.:weeping:

 

[drcampbell]

Growing up in the country ... There are actually trailers with a tank and pump and spray head designed specifically for spraying oil on dirt and gravel roads ...

Growing up in the city (Chicago suburbs) in the 1960s, they fogged the streets with a mixture of Diesel fuel & DDT for mosquito control. A few young geniuses would ride their bicycles right behind the spray trucks in hopes of getting a buzz. It's a wonder they didn't die promptly of lipid pneumonia or slowly of pancreatic cancer. (or maybe they did, I haven't kept in touch)

... One of the jobs I recall was cleaning leaded gasoline storage tanks for an oil company major. The owner was no slouch. We had a class on waste disposal, we had all the equipment, respirators, airline masks, chem suits. The sludge was buried in the tank yard, in a fabric lined pit, with steel post markers at each end - all right in accordance with the law. ... In the '70s we disposed of the sludge exactly in accordance with the law. The laws have changed and we are now hired to clean it up and dispose again in accordance with the current law. So tell me Snowflake, What would you suggest? ...

For correcting the mistakes of the past, I don't have a better suggestion.
For the future, maybe discontinuing the use of tetraethyl lead altogether? Oh, wait ...

A favorite piece of folklore about tetraethyl lead: (no claim as to its accuracy)
As legend has it, one of the manufacturers of tetraethyl lead added a brilliant red dye to the TEL as soon as it was manufactured. It's highly toxic and they wanted any spills to be highly evident. Until one day, when they had to switch to a substitute. Why? The dye manufacturer had quit making their favorite red dye because the dye -- which was maybe 1% of the outgoing TEL product -- was moderately toxic.

 

[ptonsparky]

I was drafted in 68. They were still dusting the barracks with DDT for whatever bug infestation they needed to control.