paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Neither
Back stab or screw wrap
- Thread starter brother
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frenchelectrican
Senior Member
- Location
- Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
paul said:Neither
Paul:
IMO for this device maybe a lifesaver on MWBC set up.
but only one small quirk if someone is not paying attetion here if someone remove the device and if that connecter is burnted due from overloading or poor connection.
and someone remove it and one of the connector is exposed and get a pretty good shock if not aware with it.
for me if i have to remove that kind of device i rather kill the power soruce [ espcally that true with MWBC ] first before ya remove it.
Merci, Marc
[ Happy New Year ]
Those look very nice. Are the tails on that connector 12 or 14? Are they pricey?
I think there's a rolly-stool in every one of our job boxes. I know there is one on the semi trailer. If not, they can get the bucket.
(we covet the trailer. It's so nice to be able to lock up *everything*.)
BryanMD said:
I think there's a rolly-stool in every one of our job boxes. I know there is one on the semi trailer. If not, they can get the bucket.
(we covet the trailer. It's so nice to be able to lock up *everything*.)
joebell
Senior Member
- Location
- New Hampshire
The concept of the P&S device is a nice idea for a commercail job that has hundreds if not thousands of receptacles to install on a new project, but I seem to recall Hubbell has a similar device and I don't beleive the pigtail portion is compatible from brand to brand. As a service tech that means I carry more stock on the truck or change it to a traditional receptacle.
I have never been a fan of the "back stab" method. I spent @ 7 years doing residential work and one ofthe most frequent service calls had to do with these connections wearing out. I do however like the way the P&S line is comming thru with a pressure plate design rather than than the old spring retention style.
Joe
I have never been a fan of the "back stab" method. I spent @ 7 years doing residential work and one ofthe most frequent service calls had to do with these connections wearing out. I do however like the way the P&S line is comming thru with a pressure plate design rather than than the old spring retention style.
Joe
back stabing
back stabing
hey don thanks for coming back on this. i read past 240.4D to 240.4E which discusses tap conductors. i went to 210.19(A) (2) which seems to distinguish for a tap that only connects to one device. i also thought 210.24 (the summary table) lent some credibility to my method as it lists #14 as a tap on a 20amp circuit. i also think 240.21(B)(1)(1)b while this article is specific to feeders it does show code intent for wire to be sized no smaller than capacity of the connected device. thanks for your help jim
back stabing
hey don thanks for coming back on this. i read past 240.4D to 240.4E which discusses tap conductors. i went to 210.19(A) (2) which seems to distinguish for a tap that only connects to one device. i also thought 210.24 (the summary table) lent some credibility to my method as it lists #14 as a tap on a 20amp circuit. i also think 240.21(B)(1)(1)b while this article is specific to feeders it does show code intent for wire to be sized no smaller than capacity of the connected device. thanks for your help jim
John Valdes
Senior Member
- Location
- SC.
- Occupation
- Retired Electrician
That P&S connector still must be pig tailed to the conductors, so does that really save any time? Plus much more exposed metal. I personally do not back stab and always pig tail. I want all the other recepts to work when one bites the dust.
dwellselectric
Inactive, Email Never Verified
- Location
- Cape Cod, Massachusetts
IMO if you backstab thats just lazy. I mean you backstab you still have to or should tighten the screws right? So why not just put them under the scews? And most of the service calls that I have gotten with recepticals not working is due to conductors being stabbed through the back of the device! Its just being lazy IMO
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
Please remember that when you call someone out on being lazy that efficiency is simply applied laziness. Given two _equivalent_ results, it always makes sense to take the easiest approach.
What is open for discussion here is if backstabbing gives an equivalent result, a point which I am not going to address because I don't have suitable experience.
Going back to a much earlier post: when attaching stranded wire to a screw terminal, you don't want to simply twist the wire tightly prior to forming your hook. You want to twist the wire tightly in the 'reverse' direction, and then form the hook. As you tighten the wire under the screw, the friction of the screw head will tend to pull the strands further under the head, rather than pushing the strands out. Try it; for equivalent amounts of twisting, twisting the strands in one direction will produce better results than twisting the strands in the other direction. This is especially useful with finely stranded wires in cord caps and the like.
-Jon
What is open for discussion here is if backstabbing gives an equivalent result, a point which I am not going to address because I don't have suitable experience.
Going back to a much earlier post: when attaching stranded wire to a screw terminal, you don't want to simply twist the wire tightly prior to forming your hook. You want to twist the wire tightly in the 'reverse' direction, and then form the hook. As you tighten the wire under the screw, the friction of the screw head will tend to pull the strands further under the head, rather than pushing the strands out. Try it; for equivalent amounts of twisting, twisting the strands in one direction will produce better results than twisting the strands in the other direction. This is especially useful with finely stranded wires in cord caps and the like.
-Jon
480sparky said:
What does that do to your 15A receptacle?! Or 20A breaker? Two 1500w heaters is going to be an overloaded 20A recept also. People can and will plug anything in to any size circuit/device/wire, what consumers do with our product after we leave is not the issue here, we have no control over that. I have seen people cut 30A twistlock ends off of cords and install 15A cord cap because the twist lock "wouldn't fit in my outlet" and they called me because they couldn't figure out why the breaker was tripping.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
duplicate
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peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
480sparky said:
#14 is rated at 20 amps by T310.16.
Even so, it's still a code violation.
lordofpi
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
jerm said:You guys use stranded small enough to hook to a 20a receptacle? Anything smaller than 10 we use solid. We sent a pallet of stranded 12 back to the supplier once- they didn't make that mistake again. Stranded 12 just doesn't exist in our world.
I just did this today, as a matter of fact. I always use stranded for raceway pulls if possible, and I had only loaded the van with the stranded spools of 12 AWG THHN today (thinking I already had pre-made-up receptacles) and wound up having to make up about eighteen 20 A receptacles, cursing all the way. I ought to have just used Sta-kons, but of course, they must have been out having a New Year's party with the solid THHN and the receptacles I thought I had already pre-pigtailed.
Oh well, you do what you must: twist those strands, apply a gob of spit, and -- as the rust forms -- the whole thing holds together beautifully to be hooked around a screw terminal (j/k).While we're on the subject, how many of you spend triple the normal cost to get back-screw receptacles? I love working with them, I wish they would all just be made this way, but who can justify the cost?
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