Back Stab Receptacles

[360Youth]

Let this thread go away, go away, go away. And all like it. I may make it my personal mission to disrupt the backstab thread every time I see because I have grown that weary of the never-ending debate and the tireless accuations that "back-stabbers" are somehow less intelligent electricians that do no more than create service calls for those with enough sense to wrap. I do not understand the topics that have been locked and yet this one remains. I would rather talk ground up/ground down than see another backstab discussion go down the same road as the last 25.

I hope everybody had a restfull weekend. :smile:

 

[480sparky]

That ground screw is loose as a goose!

 

[Ohmy]

re somehow less intelligent electricians that do no more than create service calls for those with enough sense to wrap.
I hope everybody had a restfull weekend. :smile:

Forget service calls...we re-device homes all the time. Honestly, I think its criminal to back-stab outlets.

I bet years ago plumbers argued over galvanized v. copper pipe. I bet years from now re-devicing homes that were back-stabbed will be common.

 

[brantmacga]

. . . Honestly, I think its criminal to back-stab outlets.

:roll:

Once again, never a problem with them on my end.


If it were so bad, it would be outlawed by now.

 

[LarryFine]

Once again, never a problem with them on my end.

If it were so bad, it would be outlawed by now.

They have removed using #12 from backstabbing as a first step.

 

[active1]

It is solid that I am referring. A contractor friend told me it is illegal. I replied it is UL listed.

It could be a local ammendment to the code prohibiting back stabbing.

Or it could be a company policy (possability even from a previous employer) that was misunderstood as code. I think there are a few owners or forman that know the code well but find it's just easier to say something is not permitted per code instead of debating the point.

There is also 300.13(B) In a multiwire branch circuits, the continuity of the grounded conductor shall not depend on device connections. I know most have 2 screw each side also. Just thought I would throw it out there as I see that happen alot on back stab work. Perhaps that was the code issue that happened to someone in the past and it was misunderstood as back stabbing is not permitted.

 

[cowboyjwc]

As far as finding a problem, I've found just as many if not more with wires put under the screws.

And of course if 90% of electricians back stab, you're going to have a higher failure rate. Statistics don't lie, people do.:smile:

 

[daleuger]

I pulled out a receptacle that by all rights should have smoked itself - the conductors looked gorgeous, but simply slid right out of the back of the receptacle as I pulled it out of the wall.

Sometimes, lightly loaded circuits don't fail despite favorable conditions to fail, I guess.

I've hardly ever pulled one out that didn't. That's why I refuse to back stab as long as there are screws as an option.

 

[ohm]

I've seen enough problems with stabbed connections that I won't let anyone who works for me do it. I see stabbing as also risking a dollar to save a dime.

Same here Larry, I feel if I've opened the box I wn it and all that can go wrong. If the HO is interrested I'll show how loose the connections are and upsell changing all the receptacles in the house.

If they have small children or grandchildren they usually opt for TR soon as I mention it.

 

[roger3829]

also stranded wrapped around the screw.

What's wrong with stranded wire wrapped around the screw?:-?

 

[Brian Oshman]

What's wrong with stranded wire wrapped around the screw?:-?

You're kidding, right?

 

[raider1]

You're kidding, right?

According to the UL white book the terminals on receptacles are listed for either solid or standed types of building wire.

Terminals of the wire-binding screw, setscrew, or screw-actuated back wired clamping types are suitable for use with both solid and stranded building wires.

In fact here is what the entire section on terminals for receptacles from the UL white book says:

RECEPTACLES FOR PLUGS AND ATTACHMENT PLUGS (RTRT)
TERMINALS
Terminals of 15 and 20 A receptacles not marked "CO/ALR" are for use with copper and copper-clad aluminum conductors only. Terminals marked "CO/ALR" are for use with aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum conductors.
Terminals of receptacles rated 30 A and above not marked "AL-CU" are for use with copper conductors only. Terminals of receptacles rated 30 A and above marked "AL-CU" are for use with aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum conductors.
Terminals marked "75 C" may be wired using the ampacities for conductors rated 75?C as well as conductors rated 60?C in Table 310.16 of the NEC.
Terminals of the wire-binding screw, setscrew, or screw-actuated back wired clamping types are suitable for use with both solid and stranded building wires.
Screwless terminal connectors of the conductor push-in type (also known as "push-in-terminals" ) are restricted to 15 A branch circuits and are for connection with 14 AWG solid copper wire only. They are not intended for use with aluminum or copper-clad aluminum wire, 14 AWG stranded copper wire, or 12 AWG solid or stranded copper wire.
Single and duplex receptacles rated 15 and 20 A that are provided with more than one set of terminals for the connection of line and neutral conductors have been investigated to feed branch-circuit conductors connected to other outlets on a multi-outlet branch circuit, as follows:
Back wire (screw actuated clamp type) terminations with multiple wire access holes used concurrently to terminate more than one conductor
Side wire (binding screw) terminals used concurrently with their respective push-in (screwless) terminations to terminate more than one conductor
Single and duplex receptacles rated 15 and 20 A that are provided with more than one set of terminals for the connection of line and neutral conductors have not been investigated to feed branch-circuit conductors connected to other outlets on a multi-outlet branch circuit, as follows:
Side wire (binding screw) terminal with its associated back wire (screw actuated clamp type) terminal
Multiple conductors under a single binding screw
Multiple conductors in a single back wire hole
Duplex receptacles rated 15 and 20 A that are provided with break off tabs may have those tabs removed so that the two receptacles may be wired in a multi-wire branch circuit.

Chris

 

[Brian Oshman]

I am on board with using solid or stranded on a clamp type or set screw type connector but I would install a crimp connector to install stranded wire on a binding screw. It makes for a more reliable connection.

 

[raider1]

I am on board with using solid or stranded on a clamp type or set screw type connector but I would install a crimp connector to install stranded wire on a binding screw. It makes for a more reliable connection.

According to UL a crimp connector is not required for a wire binding screw type of receptacle terminal when connecting stranded wire.

I do know that some manufactures do no allow the use of standed wire on their wire binding screw terminals.

Chris

 

[ohm]

According to UL a crimp connector is not required for a wire binding screw type of receptacle terminal when connecting stranded wire.

I do know that some manufactures do no allow the use of standed wire on their wire binding screw terminals.

Chris

Really? Which ones? Are they RTRT listed?

 

[raider1]

Really? Which ones? Are they RTRT listed?

P&S CR series devices are rated for #14 through #10 solid wire only.

HERE is a link to a PDF from P&S on these receptacles.

Chris

 

[LarryFine]

The how-to has been discussed ad nauseum here, from the ring of insulation to the reverse twisting.

I get good results merely pinching the loop shut with needle-nose pliers while tightening the screw.

 

[K8MHZ]

The following is for educational purposes only. Do not attempt this on a job or near small children.

RE: Stranded wire in back stabs. It can be done, I have done it. The trick is to carefully strip the wire to the minimum exposed length. DO NOT twist the wire. Make sure the wire is not bent so all the force goes in a straight line. Making sure all the strands are lined up with the hole, push the wire in. It works. Not all the time, but I have got it to work.

RE: Drilling out #14 holes in order to push #12 wire in. Drilling is not needed. Just a straight wire and a pair of needle nose pliers. You have to push hard, but a #12 will go in a #14 hole.

I prefer screw down terminals over back stabs. I have seen connection failures in both. I don't recall a conductor ever coming off upon receptacle removal with anything but a back stab, and many times at that. I have also had the bloody things disconnect while installing them into the box.

If I do get stuck with back stabs, I pigtail them if at all possible. That seems to add a bit of strain relief and I have had good results so far.

I still hate the things.

 

[c2500]

The more expensive Hubbles have a back stab of sorts in that you can install the wire from the back but you are screwing it down in the terminal. These connections are very reliable. But the receptacles are expensive.

Cooper has one also that is good...and spec grade.

c2500

 

[macmikeman]

The first time I ever saw the following posted by another member, I about fell out of my chair laughing so hard. "Profit Holes". No, I do not use them very often myself, but I'm not as hard on them as I once was.