Bad POCO Neutral Damaged Electronics

[Sean.Day72]

I live in an old home that is is fed overheard from a pole mounted transformer. Recently the neutral went bad or "loose" on my service. I noticed because my TV started to flicker on/off rapidly and the fridge stopped working. When I touched the fridge I felt a sensation in my arm, like a little shock. I immediately went outside to open the main disconnect and when I walked over the area where the ground rod was I felt a small sensation in my leg..it frighted by dog to. Immediately called my POCO and they upgraded my ticket to "extreme emergency" and I had a guy replacing my triplex feed into my within the hour. I knew the neutral was shot because instead of the neutral current returning to the transformer is energized my ground rod.

Now my fridge, xbox power supply, cable box power supply, and keureg coffee machine are all broken totaling about 3K in damage. Question, why does a loose neutral destroy power supplies? Is it an under voltage thing? Or is it a rapid turning on/off with the loose connection? Also would I have a claim with my POCO to replace these things or am I SOL? How could the casing of my fridge become energized?

 

[roger]

Your service became a series circuit.

Roger

 

[petersonra]

Utility companies have a procedure for making damage claims. Here is the form for Comed.

https://www.comed.com/MyAccount/CustomerSupport/Pages/DamageClaim.aspx

Usually they will not pay for a new item because what was damaged was used. Just like your insurance company.

 

[roger]

The POCO should definitely pay but it might take hiring an attorney to get it.

Roger

 

[LarryFine]

Question, why does a loose neutral destroy power supplies?

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=189279

 

[GoldDigger]

And the reason that your refrigerator shell appeared energized is that your protective ground wire (Equipment Grounding Conductor, EGC) is bonded to the neutral at your service disconnect. When the POCO neutral failed that bond raised the voltage on the EGC to the voltage of the top of your ground rode with current flowing through the earth connection resistance. Since the resistance between the ground rod and the soil around it and through that soil is so high, that voltage was high enough from "ground" to be noticeable and even potentially fatal.

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[petersonra]

The POCO should definitely pay but it might take hiring an attorney to get it.

Roger

You'd be surprised. I am told Comed is pretty good about paying if they are actually responsible. The problem is showing they are responsible. people want to blame someone for their damaged goods but it may not be that the POCO is to blame. And there are state by state tariffs that describe and often limit the damages.

 

[gadfly56]

You'd be surprised. I am told Comed is pretty good about paying if they are actually responsible. The problem is showing they are responsible. people want to blame someone for their damaged goods but it may not be that the POCO is to blame. And there are state by state tariffs that describe and often limit the damages.

Well, when the POCO pushes an emergency ticket and replaces the triplex, I'm going to hazard a guess there's a strong case here.

 

[mopowr steve]

In a case a while back I heard that the POCO said that it is in their customer agreement that they are not responsible for damages arising from such things as this “ things like that occurring can’t be justifiable in time even if you think it’s a maintenance issue” Kinda like if your neighbors tree falls on your house/car they are not responsible because it can’t be proven that it would occur in a specified timeframe unlike if your neighbor is cutting his tree and it falls on your house/car then it’s a different story.

 

[Sean.Day72]

I live in Florida and hurricane Irma knocked out the power here for 8 days and my service line took a few branches . I’m going to make a claim, but the poco can easily point to the hurricane for damaging the line. 8 months later it appears it finally gave out . The LCD screen on my fridge is fried . The only thing I can think of to protect against this is to get a cheap UPS


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[480sparky]

I have no doubt that some day we'll see OGCCI's* required in the NEC.







*Open Grounded Conductor Circuit Interrupters.

.

 

[jaggedben]

On the one hand, it seems surprising that the most commonly used residential wiring system can cause such damage with a single loose connection. On the other hand, consider that a bad neutral might cause $3K of damage to one out of a thousand houses over the years (overestimate?), and compare that to the cost of running 25% more wire to every one of those thousand houses.

 

[gadfly56]

I live in Florida and hurricane Irma knocked out the power here for 8 days and my service line took a few branches . I’m going to make a claim, but the poco can easily point to the hurricane for damaging the line. 8 months later it appears it finally gave out . The LCD screen on my fridge is fried . The only thing I can think of to protect against this is to get a cheap UPS


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That may actually make your case stronger. POCO knew about the damage and failed to perform adequate repairs. But I wouldn't go nuclear as the first option. Their initial response clearly indicates that they understood the situation and just as clearly it wasn't a premises issue. I suspect they'll be cooperative.

 

[mopowr steve]

I have no doubt that some day we'll see OGCCI's* required in the NEC.


*Open Grounded Conductor Circuit Interrupters.

.

I am a believer of this also, sure would save lots of equipment and in a case on one of our jobs prevented a fire.

 

[mivey]

Utility companies have a procedure for making damage claims. Here is the form for Comed.

https://www.comed.com/MyAccount/CustomerSupport/Pages/DamageClaim.aspx

Usually they will not pay for a new item because what was damaged was used. Just like your insurance company.

It expect they won't pay. Usually these things get filed on homeowner's insurance if the homeowner wants money.


The form indicates they do not reimburse for equipment failure, which is how it is with many utilities. If they were working onnthe service and connected it up wrong or dropped it on your car that would be different.

 

[mivey]

The POCO should definitely pay but it might take hiring an attorney to get it.

Roger

They are not usually liable.

 

[mivey]

You'd be surprised. I am told Comed is pretty good about paying if they are actually responsible. The problem is showing they are responsible. people want to blame someone for their damaged goods but it may not be that the POCO is to blame. And there are state by state tariffs that describe and often limit the damages.

Correct. Most utilities have limited liability for equipment failure and such. Negligence is the hurdle and that is tough to prove.

 

[mivey]

Well, when the POCO pushes an emergency ticket and replaces the triplex, I'm going to hazard a guess there's a strong case here.

That makes a strong case that they are responsive. That makes a successful claim even less likely.

 

[mivey]

In a case a while back I heard that the POCO said that it is in their customer agreement that they are not responsible for damages arising from such things as this “ things like that occurring can’t be justifiable in time even if you think it’s a maintenance issue” Kinda like if your neighbors tree falls on your house/car they are not responsible because it can’t be proven that it would occur in a specified timeframe unlike if your neighbor is cutting his tree and it falls on your house/car then it’s a different story.

You are correct.

 

[mivey]

That may actually make your case stronger. POCO knew about the damage and failed to perform adequate repairs. But I wouldn't go nuclear as the first option. Their initial response clearly indicates that they understood the situation and just as clearly it wasn't a premises issue. I suspect they'll be cooperative.

Define adequate. Prove that squirrels, or subsequent wind, weak insulation, etc. did not cause the failure.